M6GC vs M5

[elitex]

Anybody else see this? MT is claiming that M6GC is much better. Is this the case? M6 weighs more so I don't know how it's performing so much better. Has anyone driven both cars yet?

[RPiM5]

Oh here we go with this debate!

I'll go first!

I've driven both. I'll make this as simple as possible. On the street they really feel quite the same. The M6GC feels a little softer in the ride and steering to me though. On the track it's a different story. The M6GC is worse than the M5 on the track. It's a little known fact that the M6GC is based on the 7 Series chassis, so what it technically is, is an ///M7. Lol!

Anyways, Rob///M5, M54ccibo, BarryB and a few others who went to the COTA track experience and M6GC launch event can tell you how much worse it is on the track.

Also his numbers that he quotes in the video are off. He states 25hp with the Competition Package. Yeah I wish! Lol!

Now I need more butter and salt for my popcorn.

[elitex]

This is exactly what i thought from reading an article previously. I thought M6GC was setup as a softer car overall. Thanks for clarifying.

Goes to show how these so called pro reviews are heavily biased.

[richard in NC]

I liked the M6GC on track better than the M5 but opinions varied.
Here are some differences straight up:
1. The M6 GC weighs 43 lbs more per the bmwusa.com site.
2. 20"s are standard on the M6 GC. How much weight do they add to the M5?
3. The M6 GC center of gravity is a bit lower. It should feel slightly tighter to the road.
4. The M6 GC Cd is reportedly better. Maybe a slight high speed acceleration advantage.
5. Add in the carbon ceramic brakes as I drove, and the M6 GC weighs the same as an M5 with 19s. Yes a 44 lb drop in weight!

I think the M6GC would have the advantage on track.

[dan99]

it doesn't make sense...but then remember when bmw tuned the steering of the m5 of the lci... so maybe tuned to one that is similar to the m6 gc... hmmm..

[M54ccibo]

Not going to restate the specifications, anyone can look this up on BMW.com.

Yes, I have first-hand experience with both at COTA. IMHO, I believe that BMW made a huge mistake of comparing the M6GC and M5 at the event. It was clear to me that the M5 handled better. I cannot describe why technically, but when compared to the M6GC it felt more nimble. The M6GC just seemed much larger on track.

Full disclosure, we didn't do timed laps in the cars to compare...but I do know my speed was higher in the double/triple apex 16,17,18 complex.

[bobblehead]

I thought MT hates BMW, no matter what series.

[SilberGrauE60]

Originally Posted by M54ccibo

Yes, I have first-hand experience with both at COTA. IMHO, I believe that BMW made a huge mistake of comparing the M6GC and M5 at the event. It was clear to me that the M5 handled better. I cannot describe why technically, but when compared to the M6GC it felt more nimble. The M6GC just seemed much larger on track.

+1. I was at the COTA also. Same conclusions. Loved the M5. Disappointed in the GC. Wish they had the standard M6 Coupe there too, but this event was to showcase the new GC.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

I thought MT hates BMW, no matter what series.

Exactly, specially Jonny Lieberman. I was surprised when he said that he loved it.

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by SilberGrauE60

+1. I was at the COTA also. Same conclusions. Loved the M5. Disappointed in the GC. Wish they had the standard M6 Coupe there too, but this event was to showcase the new GC.

Hmmm, we either had a bad M5 or a really good M6 GC. Maybe someone had messed with the M settings because the M5 definitely had more roll in the corners. Unfortunately there was not enough time to play with the settings and get a great read on either car.

[cpdp]

haha didn't jonny say that Alpina is a BMW - TUNER - ? Ever since that, no trust in what he says

[Mperial]

Originally Posted by cpdp

haha didn't jonny say that Alpina is a BMW - TUNER - ? Ever since that, no trust in what he says

Jonny Lieberman's car reviews are the least interesting and informative on the web. He fumbles and bumbles through them like a pedantic know-it-all. In short, he has no business reviewing cars...

[stealth.pilot]

I was at COTA too and I would say that the driving experience is identical.

The cars they provided on track consisted of:
1) Brand new just broken in M6GCs with Carbon Ceramic Brakes
2) Beat up old M5s from the Performance School which had 5-7k miles of track abuse and worn out brakes which were vibrating even when cool at the start of the run.

So based on that it is not surprising the press thought that the M6GCs are better.

I have driven a brand new just broken in M5 on track and believe me that car is just as good as the M6GC.

At the end of the day whether you get the Performance package and/or the CCBs make more difference than which model you drive.

One other thing to note - the press commented that the steering is slightly better on the M6GC with slightly better on center feel. The M5 product manager told me at dinner that the steering updates are applied to all the V8 M Cars, not just the M6GC. So the 2014 M5 will have an identical steering setup to the 2014 M6GC.

[alexey21]

I cant see how the M6GC can be better on track than M5. Its bigger, longer, heavier...

[jphughan]

^ Are these steering updates separate from the steering changes announced in the Competition Package, or did the GC get the Comp Pkg steering updates standard? I was at the CotA event too and I'm pretty sure those cars weren't actually equipped with the then-unannounced Comp Pkg, which makes me curious how those GCs are different.

[Rob///M5]

It's very interesting that people have differing opinions on this topic, as it was absolutely night and day to me on track. M5 is the clear winner in all categories except brakes (M6GC had carbon ceramics which crush the steel on track). I'm not saying this because I own a F10 either...honestly, I was hoping to love the GC as I think it's a beautiful car and assumed I would walk away from COTA with my name on a list to buy one. The exact opposite occurred. I have zero interest in that car

The M5 to M6 (F12) comparison is much closer. The M6 is slightly more nimble and crisp.

BMW themselves called the M6GC the "M7" at the launch event. That should tell you everything you need to know right there.

If you want a cruiser, the GC is beautiful. For hard driving, steer the other direction.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by jphughan

^ Are these steering updates separate from the steering changes announced in the Competition Package, or did the GC get the Comp Pkg steering updates standard? I was at the CotA event too and I'm pretty sure those cars weren't actually equipped with the then-unannounced Comp Pkg, which makes me curious how those GCs are different.

Yes, the steering update is in all LCI models. The competition package is something else entirely. Based on what I experienced in the GC, the LCI steering update is a rather significant one. Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus all felt noticeably more direct and "honest" (if that makes any sense).

[elitex]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Yes, the steering update is in all LCI models. The competition package is something else entirely. Based on what I experienced in the GC, the LCI steering update is a rather significant one. Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus all felt noticeably more direct and "honest" (if that makes any sense).

I wonder if it's just a software update or different parts.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Yes, the steering update is in all LCI models. The competition package is something else entirely. Based on what I experienced in the GC, the LCI steering update is a rather significant one. Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus all felt noticeably more direct and "honest" (if that makes any sense).

Interesting! I knew the non-M F10 was getting steering updates for LCI to address numbness complaints but figured that wouldn't apply to M cars since the non-Ms are electric and Ms are hydraulic.

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Yes, the steering update is in all LCI models. The competition package is something else entirely. Based on what I experienced in the GC, the LCI steering update is a rather significant one. Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus all felt noticeably more direct and "honest" (if that makes any sense).

Yep, and the M6GC that we drove had the LCI updates. Agreed, had a more neutral assist...not over or under boosted.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by elitex

I wonder if it's just a software update or different parts.

Revised bushings.

Quote from UK CAR magazine.

Is the Gran Coupe an M6 with four doors or an M5 with a rakish roof?
The M5 and M6 share a drivetrain and the platforms are obviously closely related, but the Gran Coupe is an M5 underneath – the two share the same wheelbase. But whereas the M5 shares its basic architecture with a 520d, the M6 Gran Coupe's lowliest sibling is the far posher 640i Gran Coupe, and that means the body and interior feel more special, more M6-like. The M6 Gran Coupe also continues the theme started by the original M6, with a lightweight carbon roof helping to lower the centre of gravity. You won't find that on an M5.

As with all M5 and M6 models, the 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8 sends the same whopping 552bhp and 502lb ft to the rear wheels via a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox and active limited-slip differential.


So it feels just like an M5, then?
Not quite. M Division boss Friedrich Nitschke describes the M6 Gran Coupe as 'standing for luxury like no other M car in the past', and the tuning of the various chassis parameters reflects that: Albert Biermann, vice president of engineering, says the damper settings are slightly softer in the Gran Coupe's Comfort mode, though there's less difference as you progress through Sport and Sport Plus.

The steering, throttle maps and DSC calibrations are also subtly revised.

Does it feel like an M5 for, erm, your gran?
Well, we drove the Gran Coupe on smoother German roads, but the Comfort setting certainly seemed to be more compliant and settled than the M5's, which can feel a bit agitated and lumpy at times. So the Gran Coupe is a bit softer, yes, but it also feels happier with itself, more positively resolved. For me, that's a good thing, and if you really want a stiff ride, you can still scroll up to Sport Plus and experience uncomfortable sportiness.

The steering also feels a little different, Biermann admitting that they've tweaked it both on the Gran Coupe and in later-build M5s. Revised elastokinematics – bushings to you and me – have played a large part in a bid to create more feedback and precision from the front end. We'd say the steering still feels a little remote, but the weighting is more pronounced around top-dead centre in a way that, yes, does create more definition. As before you can choose from Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus settings for the steering, but the sporty modes just ladle on daft amounts of weight – Comfort is perfect.

Verdict
The M6 is a great car and, in nearly every way, preferable to the M5. Crucially, though, the M5's extra roominess and far cheaper price tag mean it'll still be the number one choice for many buyers.

On this evidence, the suspension changes seem to be an improvement over the M5 but we'd want to drive it on twistier, more poorly surfaced, drier – it lashed it down on our test – UK roads to definitively say if it was just as engaging, or even more so.

And here's the thing: like the M5, the M6 is relatively aloof, a car that doesn't really let on how special it is until you really explore its vast reserves of performance. Do that and you're doing silly speeds. The M6 Gran Coupe is a big, fast car, one that demolishes B-roads rather than interacts keenly with them – a CLS 63 AMG better communicates its specialness in more everyday circumstances.

But I like it. I like the devastating performance, the looks, the cabin and the 24/7 usability, but if you're looking for tactility and engagement, you might want to save yourself a stack of cash and buy a Jaguar XFR – it comes with that rakish roofline as standard.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Revised bushings.

Quote from UK CAR magazine.

"The steering also feels a little different, Biermann admitting that they've tweaked it both on the Gran Coupe and in later-build M5s. Revised elastokinematics – bushings to you and me – have played a large part in a bid to create more feedback and precision from the front end."

It may be that later build M5s, and not just the LCI has the tweaked steering (?)