[matty088]

Any one have real world experience on going from an OTS map to a custom tune on a FBO car? Are there gains to be had. I am talking about Hp gains. Not driveability gains.

[Zel335]

I believe there has been a few post of people getting a pro tune done on Bootmod3 and gained a decent amount of power. It was an M3 if I recall.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by matty088

Any one have real world experience on going from an OTS map to a custom tune on a FBO car? Are there gains to be had. I am talking about Hp gains. Not driveability gains.

With a custom tune you can push the car / boost as high as you want.. It really comes down to just how much boost you want to run.

Mike

[FSociety]

The BM3 OTS Maps has shown across the board to outperform most other Custom Tunes out there.
Not just better Gains but better Powerband as well with less boost.
At the end of the day, Custom Tunes will push the car more or can be tuned to your own driving needs.

Seek info from your tuner and get before/after dyno to see your delta and power band.

A lot of ppl have opt for the OTS map for daily and Custom Tune for weekends / race events

PS. Boost is not the only way to make power in these cars and it is known the HPFP will start failing when pushing too much boost and putting stock turbo out of efficiency (hot and not make more power)

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by matty088

Any one have real world experience on going from an OTS map to a custom tune on a FBO car? Are there gains to be had. I am talking about Hp gains. Not driveability gains.

Depends on your tune

Some OTS maps are aggressive off the shelf while others are very conservative making room for their custom tuners to offer their own maps for profit

[matty088]

I definitely buy into that thinking

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Depends on your tune

Some OTS maps are aggressive off the shelf while others are very conservative making room for their custom tuners to offer their own maps for profit

[Zel335]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Depends on your tune

Some OTS maps are aggressive off the shelf while others are very conservative making room for their custom tuners to offer their own maps for profit

Maybe, but there is also the amount of time and research they can spend per platform or ecu. You can often find they well get the ECU up and running with decent performance and allow dealers to get the remaining gains out of it. This will allow them to unlock more ECU's in a shorter time frame allowing for more people to take advantage of the product.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Zel335

Maybe, but there is also the amount of time and research they can spend per platform or ecu. You can often find they well get the ECU up and running with decent performance and allow dealers to get the remaining gains out of it. This will allow them to unlock more ECU's in a shorter time frame allowing for more people to take advantage of the product.

I hear you but i respectfully do not agree (this is coming from a Cobb user)

It would not make any business sense for them to offer the best map off the shelf, no shop/tuner is going to push their products which will dramatically decrease their sales

Nothing wrong with it of course, but something to keep in mind for users looking to make max power.

[Zel335]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I hear you but i respectfully do not agree (this is coming from a Cobb user)

It would not make any business sense for them to offer the best map off the shelf, no shop/tuner is going to push their products which will dramatically decrease their sales

Nothing wrong with it of course, but something to keep in mind for users looking to make max power.

I'm not claiming they are offering the best file, but a base file for their dealers to work off of. This allows them to work to build more OTS files for more models and ecu types. Then allow their Dealers to build custom files for profit.

Working on the side of a tuning company, nothing for BMW. One thing people people don't know is how OEM companies can have 100's of variations of ECU's in their cars world wide, we call these variations Box Codes. Often this requires having a car present on a dyno first hand to make a file for them. Sure you can tune them via of log tuning but we find this isn't as safe as having the car present to tune them.

It really slows the process of tuning for all the cars in the world. So I can see a benefit for tuning a base file for the masses and letting a "Pro Tuner" develop a better file.

Just pointing out there is two sides to the story.

I can go in to more detail on how world wide tuning makes things very difficult and why both options can be present in that model. However, I think you'll find them both in the works.

[harkes]

The PTF Stg2 93 OTS (for Pure Stg2 Turbo) will target 17psi flat (the case for Rev3). This is right on the edge of what your fuel system can deliver. I guarantee there is no performance to gain with a custom tune

[Marlinman]

Originally Posted by harkes

The PTF Stg2 93 OTS (for Pure Stg2 Turbo) will target 17psi flat (the case for Rev3). This is right on the edge of what your fuel system can deliver. I guarantee there is no performance to gain with a custom tune

Harkes are you running the map you referenced as a BEF to the JB4? Or are you running the OTS alone?

[bobalis]

I just dyno'd my car and I got 366 hp and 411 lb-ft with a bm3 OTS 91octane stage two tune. I don't foresee a custom tuning being able to get much more out of the car.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by bobalis

I just dyno'd my car and I got 366 hp and 411 lb-ft with a bm3 OTS 91octane stage two tune. I don't foresee a custom tuning being able to get much more out of the car.

That seems like the going rate for power for Fbo. How does one get more without upgrading the turbos. 360 really not much for a car with all this weight.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by bobalis

I just dyno'd my car and I got 366 hp and 411 lb-ft with a bm3 OTS 91octane stage two tune. I don't foresee a custom tuning being able to get much more out of the car.

A baseline is needed of course.
You have more room for torque

[VF-Engineering]

It's a tricky conversation to navigate when discussing the difference
between what most people consider 'OTS' (off the shelf) versus what
others consider to be 'Custom'.

'OTS' has (likely unintentionally) become synonymous with "generic"
or "conservative", whereas 'Custom' seems to automatically be given
more credibility (oftentimes unwarranted) as being a "better" solution.



For us, 'Off The Shelf' signifies that our software is pre-engineered,
thoroughly tested, and fully validated. The end result is a customized
calibration strategy that is developed to delivery consistent and reliable
power on traditional pump fuels, and offer compatibility with common
aftermarket bolt on products.



The concept of achieving a fully "Custom" software solution for your
exact vehicle, fuel quality, and specific combination of aftermarket
hardware, will only ever be as good as the two primary factors that
go into the final product.

1. Time Spent in Development
2. Knowledge of that specific ECU/Engine

The idea that you can improve upon a well developed 'Off The Shelf'
solution with a single dyno session is not realistic. Additionally most
new enthusiasts focus on "peak power" as the benchmark in which to
compare different tunes, when a dyno plot without a proper baseline
run is virtually useless.



To give you an idea of what our pre-engineered Stage ONE & TWO
software levels offer in terms of peak power, max gains, and area
under the curve, you check out our F3X N55 Master Thread. <---- (click link to jump)

Post #2 is where you're going to find the most useful comparative
data as we've provided dyno plots for both power levels, from two
different types of dyno, demonstrating baseline and tuned runs from
the same dyno sessions!

[VF-Engineering]

Here's an average HEX Tuning Stage TWO example.
The most significant takeaway is the area under the curve.

Our software generates a net positive gain across the entire
rev range. Peak power may be less than some other plots, but
the delta tells a more complete story!

Vehicle: 2014 BMW (F32) 435i 8-Speed
Software Level: Stage TWO - ECU Software
Additional Mods: VRSF Downpipe | MPerf. Exhaust
------------------------------------------------------
DELTA Gains
Peak: 58HP | 116TQ at the wheels.
MAX: 87HP @ 4,150 RPM | 124TQ @ 3,100 RPM
------------------------------------------------------

[hardparker]

The OTS tunes are great, but they're still fairly general purpose, if on the aggressive side. I think they're fine for FBO with stock turbo at sea level.

I'm running PS2 with BM3 OTS 2H 93 map. It's very rich (12.2 - 11.8) and doesn't hit boost target of 17 psi well at my 5,500 foot altitude. More like 2-4 psi under. I'm sure I'd pick up good power with a custom tune.

I've just started stacking JB4 to hit the flash boost target of 17 psi. Huuuuge difference. Picked up 7 mph in trap speed (12.75 @ 116 mph stacked vs. 12.56 @ 109 mph flash only) on a super rough first attempt, still under flash target and with a 1 second slower 0-60 (5.21 stacked vs 4.14 flash, 1.92 60 foot stacked vs. 1.86 flash).

Hopefully once I've got everything sorted I can go back for a retune with enough detail to let the tuner match what I've been able to produce in terms of boost curve and targeting and ditch the JB4 for that flash smoothness again.

BTW, does anybody know any details of high altitude tuning on the N55. I didn't recognize any barometric compensation tables in the BM3 tables. Not that I really know exactly what to look for if it didn't jump out at me.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Marlinman

Harkes are you running the map you referenced as a BEF to the JB4? Or are you running the OTS alone?

At the moment I am running a "Rev 2" OTS (of the PWG 2H 93 octane) so I guess its not really an OTS anymore I have another map custom developed for working as a BEF with JB4. There is little difference in how the two works as a BEF but more differences behind the code I am sure.
At the moment boost control is better with JB4; BUT the car has a more "natural" feel running flash only and spool feels faster

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Pardon my ignorance but I'm just getting into BM3 and learning all I can. I'm currently running a 2014 335i XDRIVE w/EWG, MPE and a drop-in K&N air filter, everything else is stock. If I decided to flash BM3 which MAP should I be using for best performance/reliability?

[matty088]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Pardon my ignorance but I'm just getting into BM3 and learning all I can. I'm currently running a 2014 335i XDRIVE w/EWG, MPE and a drop-in K&N air filter, everything else is stock. If I decided to flash BM3 which MAP should I be using for best performance/reliability?

stage 1

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by matty088

stage 1

Cool thank you. I see BM3 throws in the "GTS Transmission Flash". Does this flash pertain only to M3, M4 and M2 DCT equipped vehicles, or can this be flashed to other platforms as well?

Also, do they include a Stage 1 OTS map when you purchase a license or is that a separate purchase?

[harkes]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Cool thank you. I see BM3 throws in the "GTS Transmission Flash". Does this flash pertain only to M3, M4 and M2 DCT equipped vehicles, or can this be flashed to other platforms as well?

Also, do they include a Stage 1 OTS map when you purchase a license or is that a separate purchase?

The GTS flash is for the DCT only. Your purchase include 1 map free of choice. I'd recommend the Stage1 91 also - unless you have access to 93 of course.