MotorTrend Head 2 Head: 2015 BMW M4 vs 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS

gthal · 03-30-2016, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vocans

I'm not blaming the configuration for the result, though they did complain about the missing features on the car. I'm just very surprised BMW would have sent this particular car for a head to head.

Agreed... BMW sometimes supplies unusually configured cars which makes little sense.

SakhirM4 · 03-30-2016, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaungo

Unfortunately, they're right.

BMW fucked up by putting fake engine noises through the speakers, and by disconnecting the driver from the road.

Things that should be standard on luxury cars, aren't standard on the M4 and costs more money.

Stock exhaust sounds like a fart can, and the upgraded exhaust is about 3000$ or so.

They have alot of work to do, especially since GM is catching up.

I live daily with an M4 that I have owned for 19 months. I neither agree with your assessment or the review. That's okay - I love my M4 and I'm the only one it needs to please.

DocWeatherington · 03-30-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

That was an embarrassing loss for the M4. Pretty much everything they said in favor of the Camaro seemed perfectly valid. Only a fanboy would argue otherwise.

That being said I still wouldn't buy a Camaro. I'm really curious to see what the results would have been if they compared the Camaro against the new C63 coupe.

I wouldn't say its an embarrassing loss for the M4.. look at what the M4 is... made up based upon, its a platform that has many hats to fill and wasn't made from day one as a sports car 1st.

The Camaro has tons of go fast parts shared with a Corvette, and GM has lots of experience.

Now I don't get why they didn't get the best suspension and forgo the Carbon Ceramics... to make this a bit more even... minus the price

Plus side is the CP will have fixed most of the issues as stated in this review. Nothing new with the Traction issues of the F8X...

The C63s coupe would be interesting but I think they should.. Do another review with the C63s, M4 CP and the 1LE

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

Yeah I really prefer a Chevy parked in my driveway than a bimmer...

I think that this is the point that they were making. thay objectively the camaro is more of a performance car, better equipped, and all "caught up to the bmw"

that these types of brand identity statements are the last point the camaro can't beat

well that and visibility

SakhirM4 · 03-30-2016, 08:34 PM

A true victory for F8X haters. Let the trash talk continue.

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I wouldn't say its an embarrassing loss for the M4.. look at what the M4 is... made up based upon, its a platform that has many hats to fill and wasn't made from day one as a sports car 1st.

The Camaro has tons of go fast parts shared with a Corvette, and GM has lots of experience.

Now I don't get why they didn't get the best suspension and forgo the Carbon Ceramics... to make this a bit more even... minus the price

Plus side is the CP will have fixed most of the issues as stated in this review.

The C63s coupe won't be much cheaper

let me explain what this reads like to me.

camaro is crap because it's cheap. spending more money on a competition package will magically fix everything because that's how money works.

c63s is option to option only 5k more than the M4 and it addresses the majority of their issues. specifically engine noises and fakery and interior blandness

SakhirM4 · 03-30-2016, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthal

Agreed... BMW sometimes supplies unusually configured cars which makes little sense.

Actually, I wasn't talking about literal sound. I meant that the one they describe isn't like the one that I drive.

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Actually, I wasn't talking about literal sound. I meant that the one they describe isn't like the one that I drive.

how so? because of options?

damnitBobby · 03-30-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I wouldn't say its an embarrassing loss for the M4.. look at what the M4 is... made up based upon, its a platform that has many hats to fill and wasn't made from day one as a sports car 1st.

The Camaro has tons of go fast parts shared with a Corvette, and GM has lots of experience.

Now I don't get why they didn't get the best suspension and forgo the Carbon Ceramics... to make this a bit more even... minus the price

Plus side is the CP will have fixed most of the issues as stated in this review.

The C63s coupe won't be much cheaper

I don't know man. While it's true the M4 isn't a sports car from the ground up, but doesn't that mean the M4 should be cheaper since it doesn't have a unique platform to engineer?

I'm approaching this in unbiased fashion. I wouldn't use the equipped/unequipped options to excuse the M4. Even sans CCB's the M4 is still a solid 30 grand more expensive. And I doubt the adaptive suspension would have led to a different conclusion from the reviewers.

We will have to wait and see if the competition pack has made any noticeable improvements.

auf Deutsch · 03-30-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I live daily with an M4 that I have owned for 19 months. I neither agree with your assessment or the review. That's okay - I love my M4 and I'm the only one it needs to please.

My CA said it best. People bitch about things they don't have.

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

My CA said it best. People bitch about things they don't have.

435s?

auf Deutsch · 03-30-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

435s?

Haha no, when I tested an M3

SakhirM4 · 03-30-2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

how so? because of options?

Not really, since mine is a 6MT with passive suspension like theirs. I have full leather interior and standard brakes though. I just don't share their opinion of the car and how it drives, but what do I know - I'm just a normal person.

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Not really, since mine is a 6MT with passive suspension like theirs. I have full leather interior and standard brakes though. I just don't share their opinion of the car and how it drives, but what do I know - I'm just a normal person.

lets be level headed and say that doesn't dispel all of their qualms

Vocans · 03-30-2016, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

let me explain what this reads like to me.

camaro is crap because it's cheap. spending more money on a competition package will magically fix everything because that's how money works.

c63s is option to option only 5k more than the M4 and it addresses the majority of their issues. specifically engine noises and fakery and interior blandness

There are several reviews of the competition package available and they've all come to the conclusion that the package is transformative (as it was for the M5).

I'd rather take the camaro over the c63s. I wouldn't be caught dead driving a slushbox.

hemi to e90 · 03-30-2016, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Haha no, when I tested an M3

I'm still not following what course at all. but whatever makes the sell right

DocWeatherington · 03-30-2016, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

let me explain what this reads like to me.

camaro is crap because it's cheap. spending more money on a competition package will magically fix everything because that's how money works.

c63s is option to option only 5k more than the M4 and it addresses the majority of their issues. specifically engine noises and fakery and interior blandness

Negative.. not saying that at all.. The Camaro is a great car and I am thinking about pickup up a ZL1... next year. An yeah the Camaro is a cheaper car... But there is no reason they had to get tons of worthless options for an 80K plus sticker then complain about the cost of the BMW.. Its like buying a base 911 with 50K in options that don't have any perforamce value.

What I am saying is the issues that are mentioned in this review are nothing new.. the F8X has a traction issue as set up... and the sound sucks, steering needs a bit of loving too...

Now the question is how well did BMW fix this with the CP ... Some would say the sky is falling, but it's not...

GM is very good at putting power down and sharing great parts among its cars...

These issues are the same ones that the M4/M3 has had vs the C63s, 911, ATS-v, RC-F, Vette, F-Type, GT350R..

Yeah the BMW is a bit boring on the interior but the bones of which the F8X are based upon are the OLDEST in the class.. 2012/2011

An the F8X has been on sale since Summer of 2014... benchmarks have changed

The sky is falling

damnitBobby

I agree.. but it won't ever be( The Ms or AMGs... German cars in general (Minus the VW group)) the sales of 3 series as a whole vs the sales of the GM platform( Sum of its parts)and the ability to spread the costs will never compare or allow BMW to have cheap high performance cars in the mind of GT350R, ZL1 , Z06, Z51, GT, SS

Ian1973 · 03-30-2016, 09:07 PM

The thing no reviewer can mention is, lets see how the Camaro feels in 5 years with 60,000 miles on it.

I had a 335 that was 6 years old with 50,000 miles on it and it felt and sounded exactly the same as it did when I bought it with 7000 miles on it 3 years prior.

That's the thing with the Americans, because they build them at a way cheaper price point, something has got to give and that is by the quality of the assembly of parts. So after a few years and 10s of thousands of miles, they loosen up, rattle, squeek, etc.

This isn't just BMW, Merc's, Audi's and Porsche's also are like this.

minn19 · 03-30-2016, 09:14 PM

Call me a fanboy or whatever, but it is as simple as this for me. If you can drive an M3/4 and then look me in the eye and tell me it is as completely disconnected and no fun to drive like these two say it is.......then I cease to take you seriously as "car guy." No matter who you work for etc.

EALm4 · 03-30-2016, 09:21 PM

Selling mine to get a M2... that ought to do it vs the Camaro

DocWeatherington · 03-30-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Wouldn't that be the boxster/cayman ?

And the result is that 'murica's sports cars like corvette are faster for less money, and Z germans still get away with charging customers more money based on branding, ///marketing, and "feel" ?

I like German performance cars a lot but they haven't been the fastest per $ since.. ever ?

Sorry didn't see this..

Your right.. but again the Americans can spread cost of development among tons of sales and platforms.

The Germans don't have this option and the cars will never be American cheap value for performance. Its not going to happen

FC4 · 03-30-2016, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minn19

Call me a fanboy or whatever, but it is as simple as this for me. If you can drive an M3/4 and then look me in the eye and tell me it is as completely disconnected and no fun to drive like these two say it is.......then I cease to take you seriously as "car guy." No matter who you work for etc.

Yes, it's completely disconnected. Doesn't mean it's "no fun" but it's certainly not a "fun" car to drive. I say this because I've driven almost everything.

Everything they said is spot on. I can't disagree with a single point they made about the M4 compared to the Camaro except for the which one to drive home bit. Regardless, I still picked the M4. Don't care to own a Camaro, and I'm hardly your typical BMW-loving, American-car-hating fanboy given I've owned several Corvettes past and present. And these two guys are still the biggest dweebs in automotive journalism.

03-30-2016, 08:34 PM	#27
SakhirM4 Major General 10785 Rep 8,852 Posts Drives: '15 SO M4/'20 Z4 M40i Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW Z4 M40i [10.00] 2015 BMW M4 [8.76]	A true victory for F8X haters. Let the trash talk continue. __________________ Tejas Chapter, BMW CCA, mem #23915, President 27 years, www.tejaschapter.org
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03-30-2016, 09:07 PM	#40
Ian1973 Colonel 736 Rep 2,134 Posts Drives: 15 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Charlton, NY iTrader: (0)	The thing no reviewer can mention is, lets see how the Camaro feels in 5 years with 60,000 miles on it. I had a 335 that was 6 years old with 50,000 miles on it and it felt and sounded exactly the same as it did when I bought it with 7000 miles on it 3 years prior. That's the thing with the Americans, because they build them at a way cheaper price point, something has got to give and that is by the quality of the assembly of parts. So after a few years and 10s of thousands of miles, they loosen up, rattle, squeek, etc. This isn't just BMW, Merc's, Audi's and Porsche's also are like this.
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03-30-2016, 09:14 PM	#41
minn19 Lieutenant General 14063 Rep 10,081 Posts Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Minnesota iTrader: (0)	Call me a fanboy or whatever, but it is as simple as this for me. If you can drive an M3/4 and then look me in the eye and tell me it is as completely disconnected and no fun to drive like these two say it is.......then I cease to take you seriously as "car guy." No matter who you work for etc.
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03-30-2016, 09:21 PM	#42
EALm4 Colonel 3348 Rep 2,009 Posts Drives: SO 16' M4 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Baltimore iTrader: (1)	Selling mine to get a M2... that ought to do it vs the Camaro
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