Winter Driving in Europe (some streaming thoughts)

[E90M3CDFR]

For me driving the M3 in Europe in winter is a real pleasure (albeit not as much as during sunny summer days) and after a long drive through France and Germany last week -- with snow, ice, slush, rain and cold the whole time--I found some additional reasons to be very satisfied with the car.

First off, I am amazed at how quickly the engine warms up (compared to my E46 M3 and Audi S4). What is especially remarkable is how much heat the engine retains and for how long. This is something I don't usually notice too much in France because I tend to park only in garages. But in Germany, where street parking is a lot safer (theft and damage-wise), I would leave the car parked outside and came back 2-3 hours later to find that although it was covered in ice/snow, the engine was still putting hear out through the vents. I remember reading that some cars (maybe Saabs) had a small canister of some kind, like a thermos, that allowed them to store heat for several hours. Does the M3 have something similar? The heat is also great when you use the Rest function as I did several times while waiting for passengers.

The heated seats are also some of the best in any car I've owned; they work quickly and put out a lot of heat..while the defroster in the rear glass is also superquick.

Although winter tires are not mandatory in France, they are required in Germany and several other places I drive to quite often, so I have a set of Tirerack A7 tires with Dunlop M3 Sports (the Z-rated). I went with the 235/40-18 all around fitment...and I am still ambivalent about the size choice. It probably would have been better to have mirrored the 18" OEM fitment to get more dry grip which is the road condition 90 percent of the time. I find that the narrower fitment is too narrow at the back under acceleration and at higher speeds (esp on the autobahn). The rear feels loose and squirms a lot under load. When you make high-speed lane changes, it feels like you are driving on underinflated 80-profile tires. That said, in several inches of snow in Germany, the traction on these tires going and stopping was outstanding. The only way I think I would get stuck is if the snow was too high to plow through.

Interestingly, right after I first switched over to the winter tires, the DSC would activate a lot under normal driving even when I wasn't laying into it. After a couple of hundred miles, it seems to now activate at a higher threshold (meaning far less frequently). Is there some self-adjusting/self-learning function for the DSC to recalibrate for the different dimensions of the 235/40-18 tires? The circumference of the winter tires is quite noticably different from the stock summer tires (18 and 19) and I wonder how BMW takes that into account for DSC and ABS purposes?

The one BIG complaint about the wheel/tires is a vibration at higher speeds that was there last winter and is still there even with tires rotated back to front and two attempts at rebalancing (one of which TireRack paid for). This is very annoying and an issue under discussion elsewhere and to be raised with Tirerack again, esp as regards what long-term extra wear and tear may be happening on the front suspension. Fortunately, the vibration kind of quits above 130km/h, so for longer trips on the highways here, it's not too bad.

I've also been quite pleased with the M-DCT works in the snow/ice when the shift mode is set at S/D1 or S/D2. In the snow I found myself using D1 quite a bit (where it defaults to starting off in 2nd gear) and shifts very gently. Downshifts (as in when approaching one of the Easypass-type toll booth lanes in France when covered in ice/snow) were so smooth it was brilliant. Never felt like the car was being unsettled in the slippery bits.

Another thing I am finding great for the winter is using Aquapel on the front windshield. I swore off RainX a long time ago, except for the rear and side glass, and finally found a good substitute. At cruising speed, I was able to drive in rain/slush with no wipers...which is outstanding at autobahn speeds where the wipers always seem to lift off the glass. Especially entertaining to see how the water droplets change direction on the windshield when you are at speed with a

Some things that could be improved: the design of the side mirrors channels water on the side windows and gets the mirror glass extra dirty, especially when there is winter mix on the road. With the heated mirrors going, the "salage" that is sprayed on the autoroutes dries on the glass and makes the mirrors next to useless. I find this very surprising shortcoming. I may try Aquapel on the side and mirror glass to see if it helps.

Headlamp washers...how the heck can I turn these off since the same fuse runs the windshield wipers? I can usually time the "squirt" on the windshield to avoid running them, but not always and they use up washer fluid like crazy...and this stuff is expensive here (being very heavy on alcohol).

One thing that is on my list of to-dos is the rear fog light switch. I encountered some really dense fog crossing into France and those suckers would have been nice to have.

All in all, the M3 is a fantastic long-range winter cruiser...now if I could just punch out the gas tank to 80-90 liters...

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

All in all, the M3 is a fantastic long-range winter cruiser...now if I could just punch out the gas tank to 80-90 liters...

The gas tank needs to be at least 50% bigger.

[rcornelius]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

For me driving the M3 in Europe in winter is a real pleasure (albeit not as much as during sunny summer days) and after a long drive through France and Germany last week -- with snow, ice, slush, rain and cold the whole time--I found some additional reasons to be very satisfied with the car.

First off, I am amazed at how quickly the engine warms up (compared to my E46 M3 and Audi S4). What is especially remarkable is how much heat the engine retains and for how long. This is something I don't usually notice too much in France because I tend to park only in garages. But in Germany, where street parking is a lot safer (theft and damage-wise), I would leave the car parked outside and came back 2-3 hours later to find that although it was covered in ice/snow, the engine was still putting hear out through the vents. I remember reading that some cars (maybe Saabs) had a small canister of some kind, like a thermos, that allowed them to store heat for several hours. Does the M3 have something similar? The heat is also great when you use the Rest function as I did several times while waiting for passengers.

The heated seats are also some of the best in any car I've owned; they work quickly and put out a lot of heat..while the defroster in the rear glass is also superquick.

Although winter tires are not mandatory in France, they are required in Germany and several other places I drive to quite often, so I have a set of Tirerack A7 tires with Dunlop M3 Sports (the Z-rated). I went with the 235/40-18 all around fitment...and I am still ambivalent about the size choice. It probably would have been better to have mirrored the 18" OEM fitment to get more dry grip which is the road condition 90 percent of the time. I find that the narrower fitment is too narrow at the back under acceleration and at higher speeds (esp on the autobahn). The rear feels loose and squirms a lot under load. When you make high-speed lane changes, it feels like you are driving on underinflated 80-profile tires. That said, in several inches of snow in Germany, the traction on these tires going and stopping was outstanding. The only way I think I would get stuck is if the snow was too high to plow through.

Interestingly, right after I first switched over to the winter tires, the DSC would activate a lot under normal driving even when I wasn't laying into it. After a couple of hundred miles, it seems to now activate at a higher threshold (meaning far less frequently). Is there some self-adjusting/self-learning function for the DSC to recalibrate for the different dimensions of the 235/40-18 tires? The circumference of the winter tires is quite noticably different from the stock summer tires (18 and 19) and I wonder how BMW takes that into account for DSC and ABS purposes?

The one BIG complaint about the wheel/tires is a vibration at higher speeds that was there last winter and is still there even with tires rotated back to front and two attempts at rebalancing (one of which TireRack paid for). This is very annoying and an issue under discussion elsewhere and to be raised with Tirerack again, esp as regards what long-term extra wear and tear may be happening on the front suspension. Fortunately, the vibration kind of quits above 130km/h, so for longer trips on the highways here, it's not too bad.

I've also been quite pleased with the M-DCT works in the snow/ice when the shift mode is set at S/D1 or S/D2. In the snow I found myself using D1 quite a bit (where it defaults to starting off in 2nd gear) and shifts very gently. Downshifts (as in when approaching one of the Easypass-type toll booth lanes in France when covered in ice/snow) were so smooth it was brilliant. Never felt like the car was being unsettled in the slippery bits.

Another thing I am finding great for the winter is using Aquapel on the front windshield. I swore off RainX a long time ago, except for the rear and side glass, and finally found a good substitute. At cruising speed, I was able to drive in rain/slush with no wipers...which is outstanding at autobahn speeds where the wipers always seem to lift off the glass. Especially entertaining to see how the water droplets change direction on the windshield when you are at speed with a

Some things that could be improved: the design of the side mirrors channels water on the side windows and gets the mirror glass extra dirty, especially when there is winter mix on the road. With the heated mirrors going, the "salage" that is sprayed on the autoroutes dries on the glass and makes the mirrors next to useless. I find this very surprising shortcoming. I may try Aquapel on the side and mirror glass to see if it helps.

Headlamp washers...how the heck can I turn these off since the same fuse runs the windshield wipers? I can usually time the "squirt" on the windshield to avoid running them, but not always and they use up washer fluid like crazy...and this stuff is expensive here (being very heavy on alcohol).

One thing that is on my list of to-dos is the rear fog light switch. I encountered some really dense fog crossing into France and those suckers would have been nice to have.

All in all, the M3 is a fantastic long-range winter cruiser...now if I could just punch out the gas tank to 80-90 liters...

I've got the exact same tires, rims from TireRack and had to have mine rebalanced twice to get it right. Tire rack also paid for the first go round. Not really sure if its all tire issue or partly due to the A7 rim weight. But in order to get total smoothness out of my tires at all speeds, the place I had them balanced, actually broke the two tires that were problems down, and moved them around on the rim and resealed them. Then rebalanced with no where near as much weight as TireRack and another tire shop had used. I'm smooth all the way up to almost 200kms before I get any viberation.

[///FCB]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

The gas tank needs to be at least 50% bigger.

agreed!

[signes]

Great write up, agree all around. Curious why Aquapel over Rain-X? I've used Rain-X on my helmet visor for racing in the rain and liked it, but haven't used it on a car windshield yet.

As for the tires, mine were the same way (tripped the DSC really easily at first.) I think snow tires break in pretty quickly and gain grip, I don't think DSC adjusts but could be wrong about that.

[noxredna]

You can turn the headlight washers by temporarily turning off your headlights and using your windshield wiper. That's what I normally do.. I hate how the headlight washers will spray water/soap onto the hood of your car resulting in pretty bad water marks.

As long as the head lights are not switched on (on the 0 mode), the head light washers will not activate. Hope this helps -

Anderson

[smokinjoe64]

I too agree, the M3 does very well as a true winter driver as long as the roads are maintained (i.e. plowed, chemically treated). I've been successful using ultra-high performance Potenza RE960AS Pole Position (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Pole+Position) tires this year in Minnesota (aka Minnesnowta), which is no small feat given snow precipitation (see photos)...

[E90M3CDFR]

Originally Posted by noxredna

You can turn the headlight washers by temporarily turning off your headlights and using your windshield wiper. That's what I normally do.. I hate how the headlight washers will spray water/soap onto the hood of your car resulting in pretty bad water marks.

As long as the head lights are not switched on (on the 0 mode), the head light washers will not activate. Hope this helps -

Anderson

Anderson, thanks. I try to do the same thing sometimes but I forget often enough that it still ticks me off when I see that spray running on and on (and you have to wait a second or so after you turn the lights off before hitting the washers). For me it is less an issue of the car getting dirty since it is already pretty dirty from the snow etc. Its more the way it dumps buckets of washer fluid empyting out the small container way too quickly. I would like BMW to make the headlamp washers a separate button to activate. It is nice to have them on occassion, but I would like to be the decision-maker!

[RichB]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

Anderson, thanks. I try to do the same thing sometimes but I forget often enough that it still ticks me off when I see that spray running on and on (and you have to wait a second or so after you turn the lights off before hitting the washers). For me it is less an issue of the car getting dirty since it is already pretty dirty from the snow etc. Its more the way it dumps buckets of washer fluid empyting out the small container way too quickly. I would like BMW to make the headlamp washers a separate button to activate. It is nice to have them on occassion, but I would like to be the decision-maker!

This is the reason why I did not get the CWP. I only ordered heated seats on my ///M. I had the headlight washers on my 540i and I hated them. Did not like the washer fluid spraying all over the hood.

[RichB]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

First off, I am amazed at how quickly the engine warms up (compared to my E46 M3 and Audi S4). What is especially remarkable is how much heat the engine retains and for how long. This is something I don't usually notice too much in France because I tend to park only in garages. But in Germany, where street parking is a lot safer (theft and damage-wise), I would leave the car parked outside and came back 2-3 hours later to find that although it was covered in ice/snow, the engine was still putting hear out through the vents. I remember reading that some cars (maybe Saabs) had a small canister of some kind, like a thermos, that allowed them to store heat for several hours. Does the M3 have something similar? The heat is also great when you use the Rest function as I did several times while waiting for passengers.

I experienced the same thing with my 540i. The engine would warm very quickly and retain the heat for hours. Amazing getting into the car after a couple hours and have heat immediately available. I am not sure if it is a design feature or just a result of the V8. My 335i does not retain the heat the same way.

[RichB]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

The heated seats are also some of the best in any car I've owned; they work quickly and put out a lot of heat..while the defroster in the rear glass is also superquick.

I agree. The heated seats are amazing. I also like the feature of the heated seats remembering the setting if you make a quick stop. If on the middle setting and you run in the store for 5-10 min (not sure how long it remembers), the middle setting is retained when you start the car. They have nearly thought of everything.

[B.Hallowell]

Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR

...Another thing I am finding great for the winter is using Aquapel on the front windshield. I swore off RainX a long time ago, except for the rear and side glass, and finally found a good substitute...

Why did you swear off RainX?

[E90M3CDFR]

Originally Posted by Engle

Why did you swear off RainX?

I found that even if I super-cleaned the glass beforehand and followed all the instructions carefully in applying RainX, it would still cause the wipers to streak the windshield when I had to use them at slower speeds. The streaking would become progressively worse, especially as the RainX wore out. It was pretty annoying esp driving in heavy rain at night in the city. At speed, and without having to use wipers, RainX worked fine (as intended).

Aquapel's main advantage for me is that it does not streak at all when I am using the wipers. It also lasts much longer in between applications, and works a bit better at beading off water. The downside is it costs a lot more and it does require a wee bit more effort, but not much.

So I still use RainX, but just for the side, mirror and rear glass. By way of comparison, I tend to renew the RainX on the side/rear glass 2-3 times before having to reapply Aquapel, which is pretty amazing considering only the Aquapel is being subjected to washer fluid, bugs, and wipers.

[quality_sound]

How do you feel about staggered vs. square setups for European driving? I like the square idea for the ability to rotate, but I only drive on two short roads that don't get plowed. After that it's a plowed priority road, a B road and then the Autobahn all the way to the base. I was able to get along fine with the Invos on my GTI until I sold it last week (even in the snow and below freezing temps) so the staggered setup with the better high speed handling has it's merits as well.

Just curious about your thoughts.

[E90M3CDFR]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

How do you feel about staggered vs. square setups for European driving?

If I had to do it again, I would go with the staggered setup for where I live. The roads around most of the snow areas I frequent (skiing mainly) tend to be plowed very quickly.

I think I could even get away with a set of good A/S M+S tires for about 95 percent of the time...but its that 5 percent that makes the difference.

It all comes down to how much unplowed road conditions you are likely to encounter. The rotation front to back is nice to be able to do and will mean I can get a bit more wear out of this set.

The square setup gives up a fair amount in terms of handling. On my E46 M3 I had the staggered setup (OEM) on winter tires and it was not as big a drop in handling from the 19" summer tires. The E9X with much more power in the back pushes those 235/40-18's very hard.

[quality_sound]

That's what I've been struggling with. A contact patch that small on an M3 seems risky. I think I'm going to do a staggered setup.

Thanks for the info.

Paul

[enfield]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

That's what I've been struggling with. A contact patch that small on an M3 seems risky. I think I'm going to do a staggered setup.

Thanks for the info.

Paul

In hindsight I should have also done a staggered setup. The roads gets plowed very quickly in London Ontario. Maybe the square setup may help once or twice a year. I can always take a snow day once or twice a year!

[MachineDriver]

My square setup is great. Not at all terrible for dry roads once they were broken in.

[quality_sound]

What are you running?

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

I too agree, the M3 does very well as a true winter driver as long as the roads are maintained (i.e. plowed, chemically treated). I've been successful using ultra-high performance Potenza RE960AS Pole Position (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Pole+Position) tires this year in Minnesota (aka Minnesnowta), which is no small feat given snow precipitation (see photos)...

Interesting. Max Perf PS2s are totally useless in any kind of frozen water. I'll be interested to see if my upcoming Vredestein Sessantas are any better.