MotorTrend First Drive - BMW 1 Series M Coupe Review

[Robert]

Originally Posted by BBK

Is anyone thinking a second hand Porsche Cayman S with a turbo kit? Similar money, more exclusive and faster :-D

I am still inclined to pick up a 09 PDK CS in 1-2 years. 1M is hellavu a car but I can't see myself buying the same car twice. Despite a new power plant, wider tracks, suspension, there's too much exterior/interior similarities to sink 50k on the same car.

Quite frankly I dont even need the TPC kit for CS. Raw power is fun but usually what gets me in trouble. I prefer naturally aspirated and glad to hear in the Edmunds review the little 1M now accelerates strongly to redline, which was the 2nd biggest buzz kill. Biggest was the way 135i's suspension settles midway in a turn. It turns in nicely, but don't feel planted until midway then I have to wait a tad longer before I can get back on throttle.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by Advevo

thx sparoz lol

If you go on and off throttle midcorner and the throttle pick up is not fast enough because of (lag) turbo spoolup, it will kill the fun massively. I want an 1M pretty badly. But if the car will be in my garage all depends of the the throttle pickup midcorner by on and off throttle.

Here is movie by wich i mean throttle pickup. I buy my cars to do this. I am no autobahn cruiser. I enjoy this type of cars because driving it to the max.

Wow that video is epic. The last drift is pro-status.

[jbtco]

Have put down deposit. Seems to me that BMW are working on a limited budget to develop and have to keep the price reasonable (I guess around £45k fairly well loaded).

Therefore it seems to be a more a sawn off E92 chassis (no bad thing) with a mildly tweaked engine from the 35is. Manual only to save cost of developing DSC to fit and no carbon fibre.

[MrRoboto]

Does anyone else feel its a bit of a let down?

I remember when the 135 was first launched in NA we had the 'got to have it' feeling.

Where to go from here...1M, keep the 135, CPO M3...what to do. Maybe say to hell with it all and get a CPO Carrera.

[Miles_135i]

lol !! i agree with u 100%... screw everything including my 135 and get a porsche.. ill say tht again porsche baby... the manual transmission just put me off.. in a way its available in manual so tht it will stay out of m3 territory.

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by Remonster

For $45k you won't even get an LSD on a 135i. My 135i with Sport Package and Power Seats was $41k out the door. On the other hand, the 1M will probably be over $50k so your argument still holds water.

if you read my unedited post ... it says USED 135.

u can get a used CPO 135 for the high 20s low 30s.

[Repsol]

Disappointing for an M car

[GOLFFRR]

sick cant wait to drive one

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Looks great!!! But the lack of DCT is a total killer for me. I can drive a manual but it is awkward with just one hand. It would be a shame to have a car like that and not being able to fully enjoy it Do you hear this, BMW??? I'll stick with my 135 with Step for now.

I think they would have run out of development time to get a 2 pedaler. I had to post my pretty strong opinion in the Albert Biermann review on the 1 M coupe thread to a poster who appears to believe that if you have any interest in a 2 pedal transmission, it means you're not a driving purist. I said there are one-legged people who would like to get around the wheel of one of these. I didn't even think about someone with one hand. They'll fix this next time round so hang tight. As for me, I have a left knee injury that prevents me driving a manual as a DD for a while.

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by Robert

I am still inclined to pick up a 09 PDK CS in 1-2 years. 1M is hellavu a car but I can't see myself buying the same car twice. Despite a new power plant, wider tracks, suspension, there's too much exterior/interior similarities to sink 50k on the same car.

Quite frankly I dont even need the TPC kit for CS. Raw power is fun but usually what gets me in trouble. I prefer naturally aspirated and glad to hear in the Edmunds review the little 1M now accelerates strongly to redline, which was the 2nd biggest buzz kill. Biggest was the way 135i's suspension settles midway in a turn. It turns in nicely, but don't feel planted until midway then I have to wait a tad longer before I can get back on throttle.

I'm on a similar page except that I will be looking for a current gen 911 with the PDK (if my left knee isn't fully healed by then) or the manual. Good luck!

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

if you read my unedited post ... it says USED 135.

u can get a used CPO 135 for the high 20s low 30s.

You could also get a used evo, chip it, and run rings around both cars...

There's little point in comparing new vs used like that when measuring the worth of a vehicle. If that were the case, we'd all be agreeing that a $3k junk chassis with $20k of performance work sunk into it was the way to go.

[E82dmg]

i dont really like it. just my opinion.

[CDR_UK]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

Wow that video is epic. The last drift is pro-status.

+1, what tyres - cup sports?

[NTTY]

Originally Posted by Advevo

thx sparoz lol

If you go on and off throttle midcorner and the throttle pick up is not fast enough because of (lag) turbo spoolup, it will kill the fun massively. I want an 1M pretty badly. But if the car will be in my garage all depends of the the throttle pickup midcorner by on and off throttle.

Here is movie by wich i mean throttle pickup. I buy my cars to do this. I am no autobahn cruiser. I enjoy this type of cars because driving it to the max.

+1

I'm afraid it will be the big difference. I don't see how BMW can keep the throttle pick up as fast as it is on the M3, but I'd really like to be surprised here.

If you take the 135 with auto gearbox, it gives throttle when going down one gear (faster than what you get with your right foot), but it is not as fast as the M3. I guess they can improve, but I don't see how they can reach what we have on the M3 with a turbo engine.

However, you will still be able to enjoy drifting as the M-diff is really good for that. But of course you will have to be less aggressive with the throttle mainly because you won't get the engine response you are used to.

BTW, keep your CSL, amazing car

cheers

[jmunro]

Im guessing some of the decisions regarding this car(no DCT, lower hp/tq than hoped for) were to keep overall performance a bit below the current M3.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by formula M

Below..? I think the 1M will out handle the M3...

The question is where?

In a straight line? No, it won't. You need a CSL to be able to run a slightly faster pace than a full stock M392. Tried it. On the autobahn. Both cars slipstreaming, hitting their rev limiters and not only over a quarter mile.

On a track? Depends. Depends what type of track we are talking about. I am pretty sure, that I could run the 1M faster on the Nordschleife than I can drive my own M392 there. Provided the stats really are as announced. If their "1.500kg" e.g. turn out to be 1.595kgs, then no. On an open and fast Grand Prix track where the M3 can use it's power advantage, I seriously doubt the 1M will be able to keep up. On winding, public roads I would expect the 1M will feel faster. Because you will be likely to actually be using more engine-power than with the M3. Who runs their M3 at 8.400rpm all the time and how much power does it actually have at 6.500rpm?

For me the question really is how the engine will feel. If it is as precise an instrument as the R6 in the M346 was, or as the V8 in the M392 is, then I am sold. If it lags and if it doesn't react, when I go off the throttle, I'll hate it. Basically exactly what Advevo has already said.

[EmmDrei]

So what you are saying is: forget the 1M, buy a 335d?

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

So what you are saying is: forget the 1M, buy a 335d?

Nope because it falls on its face at 5000rpm

There is one reason the S65 pulls all the way to redline. Area under the curve. The flatter the torque curve the more it pulls to redline. Plain and simple. Torque moves a car. Change the airflow of the pump (engine) with intake (head/valvetrain/cams/spool) and exhaust (head/valvetrain/cams/hot side) and move the "POWERBAND" towards max RPM. Add gearing to match and voila entirely different dynamic.

T

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

The question is where?

In a straight line? No, it won't. You need a CSL to be able to run a slightly faster pace than a full stock M392. Tried it. On the autobahn. Both cars slipstreaming, hitting their rev limiters and not only over a quarter mile.

On a track? Depends. Depends what type of track we are talking about. I am pretty sure, that I could run the 1M faster on the Nordschleife than I can drive my own M392 there. Provided the stats really are as announced. If their "1.500kg" e.g. turn out to be 1.595kgs, then no. On an open and fast Grand Prix track where the M3 can use it's power advantage, I seriously doubt the 1M will be able to keep up. On winding, public roads I would expect the 1M will feel faster. Because you will be likely to actually be using more engine-power than with the M3. Who runs their M3 at 8.400rpm all the time and how much power does it actually have at 6.500rpm?

For me the question really is how the engine will feel. If it is as precise an instrument as the R6 in the M346 was, or as the V8 in the M392 is, then I am sold. If it lags and if it doesn't react, when I go off the throttle, I'll hate it. Basically exactly what Advevo has already said.

A 1M won't 'outhandle' an M3 in a straight line? Are you serious? Go race a 135i and come tell me how you do. You'll probably just barely beat it but considering the 1M is expected to have ~40 more horsepower with the same weight, I doubt even a DCT M3 will be able to keep up.

I've never filmed a race with an M3 but take a look at this:

[EmmDrei]

I am not talking about a quarter mile or any of that type of nonsense. But: if you look at the video of the two racing each other, then how about just explaining to the M3 driver either a.) how the launch control works or b.) how to do a standing start with max. power. No, you don't drive a car that produces its max. power at 8.400rpm off a starting line with 3.000rpm. If you do, you haven't understood the basic concept of engine performance.

When you are driving fast on a regular road (I am not quite sure you understand... we can do that here... legally), just as on a track, you keep a car in the rev range that it produces the most power in. If you don't know how to, then learn. You simply need to drive a car with a smaller powerband differently. Torque is a concept for people that love racing from traffic light to traffic light. An F1 car has no torque compared to the power it produces. It works in a rev range of 500-800rpm. Are you guys trying to tell me, that your whatever-powerband-wonder will blow an F1 away? Sure it will, if the guy driving the F1 is a dork. If he's not and he keeps the engine alive, forget it. And exactly the same is true for the M3. Keep the engine above 7.000rpm and any Stock "AG" BMW can call it a day and go home. Unless you are running on a road where a potential weight disadvantage may kick the M3 in the legs.

Fact is: The only cars from BMW, that can go faster than an M3 on the autobahn, are made or where made by the M GmbH and the M1 will not be able to, if they do not change the specs. No matter what your theories tell you.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

I am not talking about a quarter mile or any of that type of nonsense. But: if you look at the video of the two racing each other, then how about just explaining to the M3 driver either a.) how the launch control works or b.) how to do a standing start with max. power. No, you don't drive a car that produces its max. power at 8.400rpm off a starting line with 3.000rpm. If you do, you haven't understood the basic concept of engine performance.

When you are driving fast on a regular road (I am not quite sure you understand... we can do that here... legally), just as on a track, you keep a car in the rev range that it produces the most power in. If you don't know how to, then learn. You simply need to drive a car with a smaller powerband differently. Torque is a concept for people that love racing from traffic light to traffic light. An F1 car has no torque compared to the power it produces. It works in a rev range of 500-800rpm. Are you guys trying to tell me, that your whatever-powerband-wonder will blow an F1 away? Sure it will, if the guy driving the F1 is a dork. If he's not and he keeps the engine alive, forget it. And exactly the same is true for the M3. Keep the engine above 7.000rpm and any Stock "AG" BMW can call it a day and go home. Unless you are running on a road where a potential weight disadvantage may kick the M3 in the legs.

Fact is: The only cars from BMW, that can go faster than an M3 on the autobahn, are made or where made by the M GmbH and the M1 will not be able to, if they do not change the specs. No matter what your theories tell you.

We are all limited to 155mph.

[EmmDrei]

@formula M: Actually if you'd read my post and not just quote it, then you'd find the answer to your question there already. No it's not. But in a high speed drag race an M3 is faster, yes. If you want to know what type of race defines "fast" for me, click on the link in my sig. And no... a stock 135i does not stand a chance there against an M3. A 335i (there is no "official" ring-lap for a 135i) is over 20 seconds slower there. That's not what I say, that's what the german car mag reference says.

@MrRoboto: I don't understand your post. What does limited topspeed have to do with the "going fast" question at hand?