[wyrm11]

Originally Posted by ihavedrivenanm1

Bottom line: if Infinity, Toyota, etc. can provide 300+ hp in an otherwise well polished sport sedan for $35k than BMW should damn well be able to do the same thing for $48k!

PREACH!!!

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by wyrm11

PREACH!!!

I second that also.

[Pretender]

Whatever, since 1999 Camry V6 (194 HP)/Accord V6 (200 HP) already had more HP than top 3 series (not M). Example:

Accord 00 V6
Horsepower 200-hp

Camry 00 V6
Horsepower 194-hp

BMW 00, 328
Horsepower 194-hp

And my 2001 accord V6 (200 hp) was smoked by a 2001 325I (184 HP). Don't talk about HP anymore.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by Pretender

And my 2001 accord V6 (200 hp) was smoked by a 2001 325I (184 HP). Don't talk about HP anymore.

LOL. one street race, and "don't talk about HP anymore"?

[ABR]

Originally Posted by a burrito

Even a damn camry can keep up/smoke me off the line now. Sucks...

Stop driving like a grandpa, be a man!

[no1sportz]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Who cares... its still a toyota

And your point is?

[ksfrogman]

Paul, you should be a journalist. You know how to get people's attention.

[ABR]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

Paul, you should be a journalist. You know how to get people's attention.

The secret is simple: Make posts out your a$$ and let it roll.

[RPM90]

So, after reading all the posts...
The correct choice to make, so that no one needs to make apologetic HP and
peni$ size comments, is to buy a Mustang GT with 300hp. If more refinement is wanted then get a GTO at 400hp for less than a nicely equipped 325i.

Who cares that a Camry has 270hp? I don't. It's a decent car for the mundane. Yeah, Toyota made it look "sporty" this time around and added some suspension tweaks to improve their pi$$ poor handling that they've always had. Does this make it a competitor to a 3 series?
The real numbers that matter are those of performance on the street not the
promise of marketing that hardly lives up to reality.

In the E46 line there came s ZHP model that gave better performance done with very slight HP increase, but mostly from shorter gearing. The overall performance improved through suspension tweaks and wheels/tires along with that gearing. And, it cost a good amount of cash for added performance. Still, the E46 sold very very well.
Now, BMW is hitting record sales with an E90 accused of not having large enough testicles...err HP numbers. Yet, it's still winning comparisons against the 298hp G35 and super large HP numberd Lexus IS350.

The 335i (if it does come to the US) will be the E90's "ZHP".
Those of you who want to show off your power bulges can opt for that version if it comes.

T

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Who cares that a Camry has 270hp? I don't. It's a decent car for the mundane.

T

A lot of people do. And I am going out on a limb here but we here on this board along with other enthausiast make up less than %50 of BMW sales. Most people who buy BMW (in the US) are the "mundane" crowd looking for prestige. I guess BMW could get away with current power levels if it was not for competition and thus perception of the brand. Most of the "mundane" owners would be satisfied, they dont care too much about the techno aspects all they know its a BMW and its safe, period. And contrary to what you say if there were strictly catering for enthasuasts then they would be well over 300Hp already. Nobody here wants to drive a GTO or mustang, otherwise we would not be here!We love Bimmas!

[Robert]

Very true. The true hardcore drivers swap out the suspensions, even on the M3s, because they are not up to task for racing. BMW knows this that's why they put more comfortable suspensions on. Not everyone likes a rock hard ride to work everyday.

Originally Posted by mundo74

A lot of people do. And I am going out on a limb here but we here on this board along with other enthausiast make up less than %50 of BMW sales. Most people who buy BMW (in the US) are the "mundane" crowd looking for prestige. I guess BMW could get away with current power levels if it was not for competition and thus perception of the brand. Most of the "mundane" owners would be satisfied, they dont care too much about the techno aspects all they know its a BMW and its safe, period. And contrary to what you say if there were strictly catering for enthasuasts then they would be well over 300Hp already. Nobody here wants to drive a GTO or mustang, otherwise we would not be here!We love Bimmas!

[ben1364]

Er, uh? Can you spell Ford Mustang GT? As others have said, hp ain't everything by far!

Camrys are hard to beat as family cars based on price, comfort, room, parts content, quality, etc., etc. However, they are targeted to a difference demographic. Methinks you are comparing apples with oranges.

[Nikki]

HP doesn't automatically = faster.

even if it did, it still wouldn't be as fun to drive, with as good handling as a bmw.

Originally Posted by www.thecarconnection.com

If you appreciate sports-car power in a family sedan, the V-6 is the ticket (or, possibly, the way to a ticket). It has far more usable power than the engine is replaces, and pushes the Camry into a new category of performance. Toyota claims a 0-60 time of about seven seconds (slightly slower than the RAV4 with the same engine), but it feels considerably faster.

[BMW F22]

Gotta pile in here. I like BMW for all the right reasons. But when they came out with the new Gen Avalon I KNEW that Toyota is getting serious in the HP war. It's predictable because Honda was putting out cars with 240hp and that's one of the reasons why many people chose it over a Toyota. We have to realize that many are all about HP. If they had to choose between a Solara with 220hp and an Accord with 250, they would go with the accord.

THat being said, I feel that BMW needs to bump up its HP. By all means dont overrate them, just tune the engines to produce more of them. LIke many of you have mentioned, many of us buy BMWs not because of the HP but because of the overall package. Then again, I would be fucking pissed if I get smoked by a Camry.

Ferraris are one of my favs. BUt imagine if it only have 250hp but handles like a dream. It has everything you could ever ask for in a car, with the exception of HP. Would you still buy it??? I know I wouldnt. So again, BMWs are nice and all, but if they keep getting left behind, it will def. lose sales to those that have more HP.

PS- THe new camry isnt enough to smoke an E90 but it goes to show that Toyota is getting competitive in the HP war.

[no1sportz]

Guys, guys, guys. Everyone is getting so worked up. I have an answer for ya. BMW will up the HP!!!!! Yay...so guess what? Toyota/Lexus will too! And so will everyone else. Guess what happens then...BMW will do it again! I know you guys aren't TRULY surprised and upset by this, right? I am guilty of it too, but I think we lose sight of how GREAT this car is and forget to have fun with it!! Now get off your butts and get outside and go drive!

[no1sportz]

Also...I think competition is awesome! The better THEY get...the better BMW will get. This new IS350...will make the BMW engineers look in their rearview and start digging even deeper! What do we BMW fans get? Even better cars!

[luxman999]

“BMW is all about balance and HP is not that important”

To me, it’s just same-old lame excuse to defend BMW for not having enough hp. Did God ever said, “Thou shall not have both HP and Balance together”?

Friend of mine traded in his 2002 M3 to new 330i sport pkg to accommodate his new baby. He used to brag so much about his M3’s power and acceleration. But now, like so many on this board, he is all about the BALANCE on his new car. How people adjust so quickly to defend his choice.

Why are so many here are acting like they are BMW public relation or marketing person? Did BMW give us the best possible value for E90? I don’t think so. Maybe BMW could put 300hp on 330i at current price but decided against it for more profit. I really believe the 330i should have at least 3.2 liter engine. No matter how technically advanced current 330i engine is, mere 3.0 liter just won’t do anymore. Remember, BMW is one of the most profitable auto makers in the world, maybe second only to Porsche.

If E90 330i with current 255hp is so adequate as it is, just imagine what could it be like with 300hp or more? With proven BMW dynamic handling, the added power would easily put E90 way ahead of its competitors with class leading acceleration and performance. End of debate and no more excess E90s sitting on the local dealer lot.

[RPM90]

The proof of what people want is in the sales. PERIOD.
Toyota appeals to a different type of buyer than a BMW buyer.
BMW appeals to enthusiats and those who aspire to own a "prestige" brand.
A high hp Toyota will not move a potential BMW buyer to a Toyota.
Toyota is competing with Hyundai, Honda, Mits, and American family sedans.

Who cross shops a Toyota with BMW? Not many.
Again, proof is in the sales. BMW is having excellent sales and sales increases. The E90 is selling exceptionally. It is winning awards and winning enthusiast mag. comparisons.
Those of you hung up on HP numbers are not getting the whole picture.
The TL, IS350, G35 have and have had higher hp numbers than the 3 series, yet the 3 doesn't lack for sales or customers wants.
That speaks highly for what BMW offers as a well rounded, though expensive, package. Even though the 3 costs more than the others, except for the pricey IS, the 3 sells.
It's too sucessful in performance and sales criteria for BMW to be worried that a sedate family sedan with high hp numbers will take anything away from the E90.

My point about the Mustang and GTO is that they are enthusiasts cars.
Thus, enthusiasts such as myself do cross shop them. Maybe we wouldn't buy them, but they are a viable choice especially the GTO given it's amazing driving dynamics and abilities.
Also, if one feels HP is more important than overall goodness, then a Mustang GT will fill the need much better than 3 series.

T

[chazmtb]

Originally Posted by mundo74

A lot of people do. And I am going out on a limb here but we here on this board along with other enthausiast make up less than %50 of BMW sales. Most people who buy BMW (in the US) are the "mundane" crowd looking for prestige. I guess BMW could get away with current power levels if it was not for competition and thus perception of the brand. Most of the "mundane" owners would be satisfied, they dont care too much about the techno aspects all they know its a BMW and its safe, period. And contrary to what you say if there were strictly catering for enthasuasts then they would be well over 300Hp already. Nobody here wants to drive a GTO or mustang, otherwise we would not be here!We love Bimmas!

So true. I went to Fields BMW in Orlando and ALL the e90's I saw in the front parking lot had automatics. Asked the sales guy and he says he sells 90% autos. Maybe Lexus knows this too.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by chazmtb

So true. I went to Fields BMW in Orlando and ALL the e90's I saw in the front parking lot had automatics. Asked the sales guy and he says he sells 90% autos. Maybe Lexus knows this too.

99% of 325i made here for the USA are Auto

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

99% of 325i made here for the USA are Auto

Actually, I believe 10% are manuals from the onset and then by order from what a number of dealers have told me, not that that is gospel. BMW and Audi offer the most manuals from what I see on the lots. However, with the E90 I've had very little luck with manuals.

A BMW sales guy I've been recently working with tells me that another local dealer is getting a 330i, manual, sport in the next couple of weeks. It's also in a color I would like to see it in, SG.
It appears to be a stock order in manual.

T

[Nikki]

Down here in South Florida I went to Vista BMW (claims to be biggest BMW dealership in the US or the world or something, I don't know if that's by inventory, sales, sqft, but whatever) they had a bunch of e90s back in August and there was only one 325i in manual-it had the sport package, but nothing else. (I was originally looking at a 325i until I priced it out and a 330i was only $3k more) So when I went back a week later to order a 330i they said they had only one on the lot and it also didn't have any options except for sport package. World's largest BMW dealer my butt lol.