[DallasBoosted]

Dang, ya'll cry when Shiv doesn't give info and say he's hiding info, now ya'll cry when he does give info and say he's talking out of turn because it's not 100% proven.

Take your pick!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

Dang, ya'll cry when Shiv doesn't give info and say he's hiding info, now ya'll cry when he does give info and say he's talking out of turn because it's not 100% proven.

Take your pick!

[Carl Morris]

Originally Posted by David1

Shiv,

I wonder if the DM flywheel is also the source of the weird vibrations that go through the car under high load, high torque situations like full throttle and 17+ psi at 2k to 3k rpms. What do you think?

That would make sense. It seems like at high enough torque levels we're up against the movement limit on the flywheel. I haven't seen if there are bump stops or what actually happens when you hit the limit of travel, but it is sure to transmit a lot more vibration once you're against the limit.

What I suspected with the phantom misfire guys is that they were against the limit and then the misfire occurred as the torque fell off a bit and they started to bounce away from the movement limit. But if that's also what's happening to you, I wonder why you don't see phantom misfires at 3k or wherever you start to come off the movement limiter?

My guess is that if people really want to use the DMFW in extreme power situations they will want to put stronger springs in them to keep them in the normal functioning zone. I'd like to see someone try making a lightened DMFW and do that with it.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Has anyone looked at the Harmonic Damper to see if its design parameters have been exceeded due to the increased power & twisting force. BMW uses a tuned rubber damper which is much more important is managing crankshaft harmonics than the dual mass flywheel is.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Reason I have interest is because way back when I got whacked for trolling when I said it did not make any sense what so ever that this system could be pushed through the stock drive train.

Shiv assured me I was wrong about that.

To be fair, I highly doubt ANYONE thought the DMFW would be an issue. People are still saying that it is a long shot, so it's not really fair to expect any kind of forseeability if it is indeed the cause.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Has anyone looked at the Harmonic Damper to see if its design parameters have been exceeded due to the increased power & twisting force. BMW uses a tuned rubber damper which is much more important is managing crankshaft harmonics than the dual mass flywheel is.

I don't think you understand the issues at hand. Perhaps you should before continuing your diatribe. A harmonic damper isn't sensitive to power output. it is only tuned for engine speed. There is nothing that the outer ring of the damper is coupled to besides air.

A DMFW is something completely different and will behave differently based upon applied torque and RPM. Both elements are coupled to something heavy and metal. What happens to the coupling mechanism (springs) and it's effect of the two masses that are spinning semi-dependantly with each other, and the effect this racket has on the toothed wheel as it passes the magnetic pick-up is the real question here.

shiv

[AK 335i]

along those lines... lol.. there was an uproar a ways back about how changing the pulley was a bad idea due to potential harmonic imbalances. Has anyone changed a pulley to a light weight one and then experienced "phantom" misfires?

not neccesarily speaking about the ST guys but any one in general with higher HP/TQ and tuned

[BEAR-AvHistory]

To be fair nothing has changed.....you cannot run the ST's at claimed WHP/WTQ on stock components. Does not really matter if the flavor of the week is the flywheel or shalfshafts

[cupertinosteve]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

To be fair nothing has changed.....you cannot run the ST's at claimed WHP/WTQ on stock components. Does not really matter if the flavor of the week is the flywheel or shalfshafts

I'm trying understand the root of this comment?

My thoughts were so what? At this level of modification, it can be said that the car isn't really stock in a lot of places - and why should it be?

Best bang for the buck - tune and DCI and call it a day.

[diddlkiss]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Might need the flash. Some cars for some reason trims max on and some don't. Getting the dme flashed should solve your issues.

I get an cobb ap, its in the sky now.
I think I get it nextweek,I want put it and procede togther,because I think the vishnu PWM kit work very very good.

[OECMG]

Can the PROCEDE turn off the misfire detection or do you need COBB tuning for that?

[tcw]

This video was helpful for me to understand how a DMFW works, especially under heavy load.

Is there any way to upgrade the springs in the DMFW?

Why would a light SMFW have any more chatter than a heavy SMFW?

Is there anyway to sound proof the bell housing lol...

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by OECMG

Can the PROCEDE turn off the misfire detection or do you need COBB tuning for that?

A piggyback can't turn it off, as it is part of the code within the DME. But, Vishnu has the capability of turning it off with a flash.

[joec500]

Originally Posted by tcw

This video was helpful for me to understand how a DMFW works, especially under heavy load.

Is there any way to upgrade the springs in the DMFW?

Why would a light SMFW have any more chatter than a heavy SMFW?

Is there anyway to sound proof the bell housing lol...

I think if you put in a spring that's too stiff, it will remove the dampening properties, so you might as well just have a SMFW. There would need to be a lot of guess and checking on this one.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by joec500

I think if you put in a spring that's too stiff, it will remove the dampening properties, so you might as well just have a SMFW. There would need to be a lot of guess and checking on this one.

I wonder if the acceleration caused by the higher hp is causing the mass-spring system to get close to resonance causing issue.

I think when I replace the DMFW, I will try to analyze it and figure out what the resonance frequency is. It might take a refresher course in system dynamics, but could be a fun exercise.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I don't think you understand the issues at hand. Perhaps you should before continuing your diatribe. A harmonic damper isn't sensitive to power output. it is only tuned for engine speed. There is nothing that the outer ring of the damper is coupled to besides air.

A DMFW is something completely different and will behave differently based upon applied torque and RPM. Both elements are coupled to something heavy and metal. What happens to the coupling mechanism (springs) and it's effect of the two masses that are spinning semi-dependantly with each other, and the effect this racket has on the toothed wheel as it passes the magnetic pick-up is the real question here.

shiv

In inner & outer ring of the damper are bonded to a rubber sleeve. The rubber sleeve is tuned & it absorbs the crank harmonics, converts them to heat which is passed into the air. So I am not sure what the relevance of “There is nothing that the outer ring of the damper is coupled to besides air” is. Its designed to be coupled to the air to reject the heat it absorbs. That’s also why they are generally made of cast iron because its very good at absorbing & dissipating heat.

Its interesting to note that every day thousands of 335’s run up through the full rpm range without misfiring but the ones with the extra power are having issues & only some of those according to your post.

The damper could be an issue here because its common practice in racing applications that the crank damper is changed from the stock one to one suited the characteristics of the new higher powered engine modifications. At least its worth looking at because harmonic balancers fail at different rates based on how fast the specific batch of rubber starts to deteriorate.

What flywheel are you running & are you misfiring? If I read it correctly you did not have the problem only a few did. If that's the case why are you so sure its the flywheel to declare the problem solved in your headline & not something else?

BTW you might want to check your facts on the "Magnetic Pickup". The CPS is actually 'hall effect' & pretty much vibration proof.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

I'm trying understand the root of this comment?

My thoughts were so what? At this level of modification, it can be said that the car isn't really stock in a lot of places - and why should it be?

Best bang for the buck - tune and DCI and call it a day.

The so what is its very misleading to someone new trying to figure out what the full application would cost & be able to perform as advertised. The full price for an effective application is a lot more then the $8K and change originally thrown all around on this site.

It would appear so far no one has achieved a fully successful implementation of this system regardless of what they have spent.

[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

The so what is its very misleading to someone new trying to figure out what the full application would cost & be able to perform as advertised. The full price for an effective application is a lot more then the $8K and change originally thrown all around on this site.

Oh here we go again. Do you remember what happened the last time you insisted on continuing this line of arguement?

Let's be clear; you need to seperate the cost of the single turbo kit from the cost of modifying the whole car. Those are two seperate things. Most owners who get the single turbo kit already have supporting mods, and if they don't they take responsibility for choosing whatever supporting mods they want on their car. It's their car and their choice.

[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Its interesting to note that every day thousands of 335’s run up through the full rpm range without misfiring but the ones with the extra power are having issues & only some of those according to your post.

This is a good question.
My personal theory is that the DME applies different levels of filtering to the RPM signal to keep the signal clean and reliable. Naturally there is less time between ticks at high rpm so the filtering has to be reduced to maintain high resolution.

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

What flywheel are you running & are you misfiring? If I read it correctly you did not have the problem only a few did. If that's the case why are you so sure its the flywheel to declare the problem solved in your headline & not something else?

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

Oh here we go again. Do you remember what happened the last time you insisted on continuing this line of arguement?

Let's be clear; you need to seperate the cost of the single turbo kit from the cost of modifying the whole car. Those are two seperate things. Most owners who get the single turbo kit already have supporting mods, and if they don't they take responsibility for choosing whatever supporting mods they want on their car. It's their car and their choice.

Yeah, Shiv whined & I got banned so what's new. My only issue with your position is Shiv specifically said you did not need anything else in the stock drive train to run the turbo kit. He did not say you did not need anything else over & above the modifications you already made to your cars like suspension, clutch, flywheel, transmission etc......big difference.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

This is a good question.
My personal theory is that the DME applies different levels of filtering to the RPM signal to keep the signal clean and reliable. Naturally there is less time between ticks at high rpm so the filtering has to be reduced to maintain high resolution.

+1

[saxon]

So could the transmission be the problem for the at guys, I have a leaking mechatronic sleave and 6500 rpm misfire and it seems like the car should shift but doesnt