Vs. others

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Law

It truly is a shame they haven't done that given their prowess in chassis engineering and history of fantastic engines.

The announcement that BMW AG has barred BMW M from touching the i8 brings further disappointment.

Exactly. BMW M could make amazing sports cars. But the m5/m6 gets bad reviews and the m4s looks and engine was based on EPA and pedestrian regulations. I think BMW is also using only two platforms for their entire massive lineup when they used to create a new platform for everything. BMW is changing and it's becoming about mpg and slapping m badges on everything.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Jockey

That's fine. But stop blaming the M3 for that. That is not the place nor the purpose of the M3.

That's a completely different car, as you pointed out, that BMW doesn't make.

I agree that BMW doesn't make that car. So as a BMW and M fan the M4 given it's their most performance oriented offering is the only option to look at. The M4 was designed to be on the track obviously so it's fair to compare it to other performance cars. And M Division in their interviews always talks of the M3 as being a sports car and it's only people on the forums who talk about it being an overall car to justify it not performing equally or better to its rivals. This is bmws top performance car so it's fair game to compare it to others.

[Tonymiabmw]

People can argue all they want but this car will outperform the e90 and F10. So what ever comment make people feel better by all means.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

People can argue all they want but this car will outperform the e90 and F10. So what ever comment make people feel better by all means.

The car is 7 years plus a generation newer. I would hope that it would outperform the previous generation. I dont think anyone has ever argued that point.

[Buddy Revell]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

The car is 7 years plus a generation newer. I would hope that it would outperform the previous generation. I dont think anyone has ever argued that point.

I'm a bit curious why you like the E92 so much, since it's not as pure a sports car as what you'd prefer, either. Also, by the time you bought yours in 2013, didn't it already have kind the stiff competition from other makers that you say the F82 will have?

[Audio Fan]

I'm pretty new to the forum, but have liked and owned M3s since 1999. M cars are not race cars, especially when they are new. We may take them to the track on occasion, a very few may do so on a regular basis, but that doesn't make us racers. Even then, no one is racing. They are playing racer under very controlled conditions.

Go to VIR, road Atlanta, or the like and see what people drive and what people actually race . They are very different beasts. Most of the race cars have much less power than an E46, let alone the F8x. The most popular racer seems to be a Mazda Miata/mx-5.

M cars are luxury cars that function as sports cars. That's what the market wants, that's what BMW delivers - almost to perfection. If you don't like what they are offering, they likely aren't worried about making you happy. Mercedes and Audi are not going to care much either. Mercedes is just now using a DCT in their 4 banger AMG. No MT in sight. Audi just can't quite figure it out.

A real track driver, which I'm not and nobody here probably is, isn't going to get a car that has leather seats, nav, dynamic suspension, rear view cameras, etc. and then race. Plus, these real drivers would probably whip us in our M4s with much less of a car. This car is so much more than we need, it's ridiculous.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

I'm a bit curious why you like the E92 so much, since it's not as pure a sports car as what you'd prefer, either. I mean, by the time you bought yours in 2013, didn't it already have kind the stiff competition from other makers that you say the F82 will have?

I don't think in all my discussions of the M4 have I compared it to the e9x besides to say I hope it continues the trend of being the benchmark. The s65 will always sound better and it's an engine M wanted to use while the M4 is an engine that EPA regulations forced. My issues with the M4 are about the competition it will face from it's rivals. And yes the tough competition was out when I got my e92 but the engine, sound, look, and being an M fan made me get the M which I considered the best pound for pound car I'm just not sure if the M4 is going to be the best pound for pound.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I agree that BMW doesn't make that car. So as a BMW and M fan the M4 given it's their most performance oriented offering is the only option to look at. The M4 was designed to be on the track obviously so it's fair to compare it to other performance cars. And M Division in their interviews always talks of the M3 as being a sports car and it's only people on the forums who talk about it being an overall car to justify it not performing equally or better to its rivals. This is bmws top performance car so it's fair game to compare it to others.

Then stop comparing it to an R8 and GTR. It's neither of those cars. It was never ever designed to compete with those cars. It's been debated ad naseum whether or not it's even fair to compare it to a Corvette. I won't rehash why there's a big difference between a Corvette and an M4.

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

M cars are luxury cars that function as sports cars. That's what the market wants, that's what BMW delivers - almost to perfection.

Ex-freaking-zactly.

[Audio Fan]

I think M4 easily will run with an R8 and a Vette. The issue is that neither are great daily drivers, one is too expensive, and we don't want to own the other. I'd throw 911s and Cayman S in the group. You'd need the 911 turbo to separate. Even on a track, it's splitting hairs with these cars. Best driver wins each lap.

GTR and 911 turbo are just different animals.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I don't think in all my discussions of the M4 have I compared it to the e9x besides to say I hope it continues the trend of being the benchmark. The s65 will always sound better and it's an engine M wanted to use while the M4 is an engine that EPA regulations forced. My issues with the M4 are about the competition it will face from it's rivals. And yes the tough competition was out when I got my e92 but the engine, sound, look, and being an M fan made me get the M which I considered the best pound for pound car I'm just not sure if the M4 is going to be the best pound for pound.

The dumbest shit I have heard... Your precious e92 will get raped vs any of the cars you are mentioning... I would never buy a vett as it doesn't fit my life style, stick to your cars and get off this forums and enjoy your life.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

M cars are luxury cars that function as sports cars. That's what the market wants, that's what BMW delivers - almost to perfection.

The M division only exists because of creating cars for homologation in order to go racing. So in the beginning it was quite the opposite of what you are stating. But now BMW is in the business of selling cars and lots of them, so yes now they are more luxury performance street cars.

[Jockey]

This is how I feel right now

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

But now BMW is in the business of selling cars and lots of them, so yes now they are more luxury performance street cars.

Yes, for the last 20+ years. Not exactly a new thing for M.

[Buddy Revell]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I don't think in all my discussions of the M4 have I compared it to the e9x besides to say I hope it continues the trend of being the benchmark. The s65 will always sound better and it's an engine M wanted to use while the M4 is an engine that EPA regulations forced. My issues with the M4 are about the competition it will face from it's rivals. And yes the tough competition was out when I got my e92 but the engine, sound, look, and being an M fan made me get the M which I considered the best pound for pound car I'm just not sure if the M4 is going to be the best pound for pound.

The thing is, you're criticizing the F82 for:
1. Having too many compromises when, in fact, our own E92 was criticized for the same thing when it came out.
2. Not completely obliterating rivals when, by the time you got your '13, the E92 was not obliterating rivals either.
Just seems like a double-standard and a bit hypocritical to rag on the newer car when our own car (which you apparently love) has some of the same attributes that your are criticizing.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

The thing is, you're criticizing the F82 for:
1. Having too many compromises when in fact our own E92 was criticized for the same thing when it came out and
2. Not completely obliterating rivals when by the time you got your '13, the E92 was not obliterating rivals either.
Just seems like a double-standard and a bit hypocritical to rag on the newer car when our own car (which you apparently love) has some of the same attributes that your are criticizing.

My car has nothing to do with it. My discussions have solely been based on the M4 and how it will compare to other cars in its category or price range.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by //M sa

The dumbest shit I have heard... Your precious e92 will get raped vs any of the cars you are mentioning... I would never buy a vett as it doesn't fit my life style, stick to your cars and get off this forums and enjoy your life.

Not quite sure why some think the new M4 won't out perform the E9x M3. Has any new M3 ever been slower or performed worse than the previous generation?

Is the M4 possibly less of the old raw M-feeling, sure. But one thing is for sure the M4 is going to put down some impressive numbers.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Jockey

This is how I feel right now





Yes, for the last 20+ years. Not exactly a new thing for M.

Didn't say it was a new thing.

But it is the whole reason it is called "M". M stands for motorsport after all.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Not quite sure why some think the new M4 won't out perform the E9x M3. Has any new M3 ever been slower or performed worse than the previous generation?

Is the M4 possibly less of the old raw M-feeling, sure. But one thing is for sure the M4 is going to put down some impressive numbers.

Yeah I have no idea why fans of the M4 keep talking about how it will beat a e9x. It's 7 years newer plus a generation newer so that's a given and never been debated. Although I will guarantee that with my e9x I'll be able to best a few of the M4 guys at the track.

[Buddy Revell]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

My car has nothing to do with it. My discussions have solely been based on the M4 and how it will compare to other cars in its category or price range.

LOL sorry, but your arguments are quite hypocritical (with the exception of our S65 sounding much better than the new engine). Almost the exact same criticisms you have when comparing the M4 to "other cars in its category or price range" could be made against the E92 against "other cars in its category or price range" back in '13, yet you still bought it and I assume love it. That just strikes me as silly, that's all.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

LOL sorry, but your arguments are quite hypocritical (with the exception of our S65 sounding much better than the new engine). Almost the exact same criticisms you have when comparing the M4 to "other cars in its category or price range" could be made against the E92, yet you still bought it and I assume love it. That just strikes me as silly, that's all.

I still don't understand what my car has to do with how the M4 compares to the competition. I could ride a tricycle and that doesn't change anything. My vehicle has nothing to do with the concerns I have about the M4 even if some of those concerns apply to my vehicle. This is about wanting the M4 to be better then the competition.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

I think M4 easily will run with an R8 and a Vette. The issue is that neither are great daily drivers, one is too expensive, and we don't want to own the other. I'd throw 911s and Cayman S in the group. You'd need the 911 turbo to separate. Even on a track, it's splitting hairs with these cars. Best driver wins each lap.

GTR and 911 turbo are just different animals.

You're delusional If you think it can hang with the C7 corvette on track . The C7 ran a faster time at VIR than the C6 ZR-1 corvette ! The C7 is a true sports car and is worlds apart over the mix duty M3/4 on track .

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Didn't say it was a new thing.

But it is the whole reason it is called "M". M stands for motorsport after all.

Yes, but how many models have existed after the E30?

People can be cute all they want and say M stands for marketing now, but M still makes cars that fill the niche they are chartered for.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Yes, but how many models have existed after the E30?

People can be cute all they want and say M stands for marketing now, but M still makes cars that fill the niche they are chartered for.

BMW should use and market it's BMW Performance brand to fill the market of those wanting an everyday car with some track capabilities while keeping the M reserved only for track focused Motorsport vehicles. As someone else mentioned the M stands for Motorsport yet everyone keeps talking about how lovely the Motorsport cars can get groceries and comfortably seat 5. There are no groceries or children on the track where Motorsports take place or maybe M should rename itself to something that doesn't suggest it's supposed to be a sports cars.