[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

A 320i xDrive weighs less than a 2 GC, despite being larger in physical size.

Well, the short answer for this is, that all modern cars are heavier.

There are multiple reasons for this, but one of the main ones would be the increased safety/crash requirements that had been introduced in the last years. Cars need to have more airbags, sensors and rigidity in general, which inevitably leads to more weight.
An old F30, which is by now a more than 10 year old car, would never pass these requirements. It's a shame, really, but these regulations lead to a "compact" car to be almost 1600kg.

[alpinewhite3]

Just a quick clarification - BMW says the 228i gran coupe trunk space is 15.1 cubic feet. Thus making it larger than the F30 320i and a little under the 16.9 found in the current G20 330i. You have to count the storage space below the folding mat.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Just a quick clarification - BMW says the 228i gran coupe trunk space is 15.1 cubic feet. Thus making it larger than the F30 320i and a little under the 16.9 found in the current G20 330i. You have to count the storage space below the folding mat.

Car and driver classify both the 2 and 3 as a compact.

You don’t measure what’s below the trunk.

The 3 has a trunk that’s a cubic ft larger, and that doesn’t account for the actual opening of the trunk.

2:
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/2-s...an-coupe/specs

3:
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/3-s...ies-sedan_2018

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

Car and driver classify both the 2 and 3 as a compact.

You don’t measure what’s below the trunk.

The 3 has a trunk that’s a cubic ft larger, and that doesn’t account for the actual opening of the trunk.

2:
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/2-s...an-coupe/specs

3:
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/3-s...ies-sedan_2018

In what world is the 3 series a "compact" car...that's a laughable characterization. If that's the case then the 2 series GC is a sub-compact. The 3 series is now the size of the E36 5 series and the 2 series GC is the size of the E90 3 series. I bet the next 3 series will be even bigger and fatter.

FYI- BMW's press release lists 15.1 as the official trunk space. Unless they're flat out lying, car and driver has it wrong. Most other publications list 15.1

[cukeuk]

Quite, I think the op is desperately seeking incorrect information to suit their own incorrect agenda.
Proving he shouldn't give up his day job and leave reviews to those who know what they're talking about...

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by cukeuk

Quite, I think the op is desperately seeking incorrect information to suit their own incorrect agenda.
Proving he shouldn't give up his day job and leave reviews to those who know what they're talking about...

https://www.caranddriver.com/researc...a-compact-car/

[recover]

Everybody is entitled to their opinion,choices and preferences,lets not get all riled up in here.

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

https://www.caranddriver.com/researc...a-compact-car/

Yeah well, maybe the 3 is a compact car in US terms, but it sure as hell is not in the same segment than the 2 series GC.

The 3 has been a middle class sedan for a long time and the 1 and 2 series is a compact car.

How about Mercedes C-Class and Audi A4? They are in the same segment as the 3 Series.

1 and 2 Series F4x cars are compact cars like Audi A3, Mercedes A-Class or VW Golf.

[cukeuk]

Indeed, as a comparison:
2GC dimensions: Length x 4,386 mm
F30 dimensions: Length x 4,624mm
Clearly each car is in a different class and any reviewer worth their salt would know this..

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by cukeuk

Indeed, as a comparison:
2GC dimensions: Length x 4,386 mm
F30 dimensions: Length x 4,624mm
Clearly each car is in a different class and any reviewer worth their salt would know this..

I’m in the US, so

[cukeuk]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

I’m in the US, so

I guess when it is obvious the argument is lost then desperately make juvenile comments to whom it you've lost too.

Fortunately other reviewers get it correct from the US...

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

This car replaced an F30 - it’s much smaller and not nearly as useful.

The G20 replaced the F30, not this car. Just because BMW offered a stripped-down 3 Series as its "entry" car doesn't mean that this car "replaces" the 320.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by tex2670

The G20 replaced the F30, not this car. Just because BMW offered a stripped-down 3 Series as its "entry" car doesn't mean that this car "replaces" the 320.

Why not?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

Why not?

Why does a smaller, FWD based car "replace" a RWD based car that was replaced with another RWD based car?

I'm supposed to believe that the F30 3 Series competed with the A3 and CLA, but also competed with the A4 and C Class, just depending on what trim you were buying? That would mean that a base G20 330 still "competes" with a higher trim A3 and CLA, no? And, for that matter, any other car that costs about the same and is "classified" by the govt as "compact", right?

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by tex2670

Why does a smaller, FWD based car "replace" a RWD based car that was replaced with another RWD based car?

I'm supposed to believe that the F30 3 Series competed with the A3 and CLA, but also competed with the A4 and C Class, just depending on what trim you were buying? That would mean that a base G20 330 still "competes" with a higher trim A3 and CLA, no? And, for that matter, any other car that costs about the same and is "classified" by the govt as "compact", right?

The 320 did compete with the CLA when it was out. That’s the cheapest car bmw had at the time.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

The 320 did compete with the CLA when it was out. That’s the cheapest car bmw had at the time.

You keep bootstrapping by justifying "competing" solely based on price. That's like saying a loaded RAV-4 competes with a base X1.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by tex2670

You keep bootstrapping by justifying "competing" solely based on price. That's like saying a loaded RAV-4 competes with a base X1.

That’s how people shop for cars. If you have a 320 and walked into a bmw dealership today to ask for a replacement that’s the same price as that 320 with similar equipment, where would they point you to?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

That’s how people shop for cars. If you have a 320 and walked into a bmw dealership today to ask for a replacement that’s the same price as that 320 with similar equipment, where would they point you to?

In that one specific instance, where you had someone who bought a stripped down 320 and their lease is up and they know literally nothing about cars, and they are intent on getting another BMW based solely on what's in the same price range, then yeah, sure, I guess.

But I don't know a single person that shops for cars as you suggest. Every person I know what look at the 2GC and say "Boy that's much smaller."

[alpinewhite3]

If we're going to open that can of worms, then anyone buying a fully loaded 330i would be directed by the salesperson to a base 5 series or cross shop the fully loaded 330i with a base Mercedes E class or Audi A6 based on price. The only time price matters is when you're in the same class or segment. If the z4 was discontinued by BMW would a salesperson direct you to the 5 series because they are around the same price?

FYI, below is well known and well established:

Bmw 1 series hatch/Audi A1 hatch/A3 hatch/Mercedes A class hatch/
Bmw 2 series GC/Audi A3 sedan/Mercedes CLA sedan/Mercedes A class sedan(discontinued)
Bmw 3 series/Audi A4/Mercedes C class
Bmw 4 series/Audi A5/Mercedes E class coupe
Bmw 5 series/Audi A6/Mercedes E class
Bmw 7 series/Audi A8/Mercedes S class
Bmw 8 Series/Audi A7/Mercedes CLS coupe
Bmw X1/Audi Q3/Mercedes GLB
BMW X2/Audi Q2/Mercedes GLA
Bmw X3/Audi Q5/Mercedes GLC
Bmw X5/Audi Q7/Mercedes GLE

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

If we're going to open that can of worms, then anyone buying a fully loaded 330i would be directed by the salesperson to a base 5 series or cross shop the fully loaded 330i with a base Mercedes E class or Audi A6 based on price. The only time price matters is when you're in the same class or segment. If the z4 was discontinued by BMW would a salesperson direct you to the 5 series because they are around the same price?

FYI, below is well known and well established:

Bmw 1 series hatch/Audi A1 hatch/A3 hatch/Mercedes A class hatch/
Bmw 2 series GC/Audi A3 sedan/Mercedes CLA sedan/Mercedes A class sedan(discontinued)
Bmw 3 series/Audi A4/Mercedes C class
Bmw 4 series/Audi A5/Mercedes E class coupe
Bmw 5 series/Audi A6/Mercedes E class
Bmw 7 series/Audi A8/Mercedes S class
Bmw 8 Series/Audi A7/Mercedes CLS coupe
Bmw X1/Audi Q3/Mercedes GLB
BMW X2/Audi Q2/Mercedes GLA
Bmw X3/Audi Q5/Mercedes GLC
Bmw X5/Audi Q7/Mercedes GLE

Not really - a fully loaded 3 series and a base 5 are two very different cars.

On the other hand, a 228 and 320 are the same price, same levels of power (the 228 more so), around the same size, and have the same level of equipment for the same price.

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls

Not really - a fully loaded 3 series and a base 5 are two very different cars.

On the other hand, a 228 and 320 are the same price, same levels of power (the 228 more so), around the same size, and have the same level of equipment for the same price.

And yet, they are not the same class. As already mentioned, the 2 series F44 is a compact class car closely related to 1 series and is to be compared to compact cars from other competitors like Mercedes CLA (or A-Class Limo), Audi A3 sedan, etc.

I understand what you are trying to say here, but it's wrong. I don't get what's so hard to understand here. It's official information. Check other reviewers if in doubt. No one is comparing a 2 GC with a 3 series.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by Erebor

And yet, they are not the same class. As already mentioned, the 2 series F44 is a compact class car closely related to 1 series and is to be compared to compact cars from other competitors like Mercedes CLA (or A-Class Limo), Audi A3 sedan, etc.

I understand what you are trying to say here, but it's wrong. I don't get what's so hard to understand here. It's official information. Check other reviewers if in doubt. No one is comparing a 2 GC with a 3 series.

This thread has many international viewers it seems.

In America, the F30 3 Series was available in a basic form called the 320. For euro customers, it may have been the norm, but here it was unusual in that it didn’t have as much in it and was comparitivly cheap. At the time, you could get an Audi A3 or similar for the same price, despite that class of car being smaller.

Of course that car went away, and in its place is the 228i, which is more in tune with what the other makers offer. However, 320 owners are going to presumably go back into a bmw dealer at some point and ask for a replacement. The dealer will ask what they can afford, and if they say “same payments” then they get pointed in the direction of this car. There is no G20 320 here; that car has become more expensive and upscale.

Forum members are more educated, but that’s not how most buyers operate.