BEWARE: CAR DEALERSHIP

1HungryMan · 04-17-2008, 05:21 PM

That is b.s. plain and simple. I did almost the same thing as you did minus the trade in with BMW Toronto and they kindly refunded my deposit the same day I cancelled my order. They were very good about the whole thing.

I wouldn't let that nonsense stand assuming there's not more to the story.

kevinwu930 · 04-17-2008, 09:37 PM

I just got off from a very frustrating phone call with my SA at Brian Jessel. Apparently they know I have been writing on this forum. I can't stand their BS anymore. He told me they were doing everything they can to help me. The reason why they wouldn't give me my deposit back is because I should've faxed my offer from Park Shore to them so they can match it. So now it becomes my fault. He also told me that his manager is very upset about this. I just can't understand why they are doing this. Giving up $1500 in exchange of a good reputation, I think it is worth it. Anwyay, I am waiting for the BBB's response, if they decide not to give the deposit back (which I think is very likely), I will take the case to small claims court.

koala · 04-17-2008, 09:38 PM

Good, if they know you've been writing on this forum then they know how much bad publicity this is for them. I have lots of friends in Vancouver and I'll make sure they know never to do business at Brian Jessel.

Being in retail myself, I appreciate their wanting to know about your other deal and having the opportunity to match it, but they should not, under any circumstance, blame this on you. That is just a poor excuse for refusing to refund and it's another reflection on just how terrible their dealership must be.

warmtoes · 04-17-2008, 10:09 PM

It is a crazy move not to give your deposit back. There are tons of people wanting these cars. It's only $1500 versus getting your reputation ruined. Not smart. If Brian Jessel himself knew about this I'm sure he would be pissed at his guys for allowing it to get all over a BMW forum.

kevinwu930 · 04-17-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmtoes

It is a crazy move not to give your deposit back. There are tons of people wanting these cars. It's only $1500 versus getting your reputation ruined. Not smart. If Brian Jessel himself knew about this I'm sure he would be pissed at his guys for allowing it to get all over a BMW forum.

The SA told me that they will be selling this car, they don't have to hold it for me anymore.

Bringinthewolf · 04-17-2008, 10:37 PM

You should not need to fax them a copy of your other quote.
That is total :bs:

You gave them a shot and they gave you their price which you assumed was the best they could do. Maybe they should have been sharper to begin with. You're not buying a used car from some shady outfit on Kingsway your buying a BMW for Christ sakes.

looking · 04-20-2008, 05:23 PM

Hey,
I've been following this thread and this is the typical dealer stall tactic. I've sold cars in Van for a while and the reason they want you to give them the invoice is because, dealer networks get together to discuss "issues" they, as a network they are experiencing. As part of these meetings they agree (gentlemen agreement) not to undercut each other - hence when you find a better deal they want to know who's under cutting. Now, no dealer is every going to admit but, I assure you it's the case. It's funny how this car sales people can't even trust their own!

What can you do to get your money back? 1) BBB is a good way, something faster-is 2) go in on a Weekend and make a fuss in their show room - Make sure it's prime time- after lunch is usually pretty good. Will you get kicked off the lot? Yes, for sure, but nothing stops you from standing in front of their lot and stopping cars before they go in. Tell every car you stop what happened -you might even want to printout something to hand the cars you stopped. I know this is pretty extreme but, I've seen a dealer exchange a car for a customer, using this tactic. You have a right to protest ("peaceful" gathering)- or inform other customer. 3) Can BMW Canada and let them know your issue with this dealer.

In terms of dealers reading this board? I'm not surprised - makes you wonder why someone would want the name of the SA - could it be his manager, dealer principle? I've been on big boards where the Manufacture actually monitor the boards to gather warranty rejection evidence. Don't for get this is a public forum.

Good luck and don't stress over it...They want you to be PO'd over this so, just be professional and professional.

kevinwu930 · 04-21-2008, 12:49 PM

BBB just forwarded me the response letter from Brian Jessel. Quoted "Although I believe it is within our legal right to withhold Mr.Wu's $1500 deposit I will issue a refund credit." oh well, I've wasted too much time and energy on this non-sense. Case is closed

looking · 04-21-2008, 12:59 PM

^^^

Good to hear. Like I said they want you to stress out. I think dealers that choose to withhold deposits are just idiotic. It just doesn't make smart business sense.

Bringinthewolf · 04-21-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excel

^^^

Good to hear. Like I said they want you to stress out. I think dealers that choose to withhold deposits are just idiotic. It just doesn't make smart business sense.

+1

fe1rx · 04-21-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excel

I think dealers that choose to withhold deposits are just idiotic.

And what do you think of "buyers" who sign things they don't read and don't keep a copy of?

Lets face it, it was obvious the deposit would be returned eventually. I would say the dealer waited just long enough to make sure that this buyer won't come back again to pull their chain on another "deal". Maybe that isn't so idiotic.

PhAzE · 04-21-2008, 07:04 PM

Well if you look at it, you went in and signed some papers and put your deposit down. Do you honestly think they'd want to let you go? I'm sure if you had actually brought those quotes from Parkshore over, they would have met those numbers exactly. They don't want anyone pulling their leg being haggled down. IMO from my experience Brian Jessel is the best bmw dealership out of the 4 that I know. What you should have done was just back out of the deal all together, they would have given your deposit back then instead of try to keep you and compete with park shore.

vanbmw · 04-21-2008, 07:17 PM

First off I have no experience with Park shore BMW. Before purchasing my 135 at Brian Jessel I went to Autowest BMW and the BMW store and got trade in quotes on my current car and quotes on the 135. Brian Jessel was the cheapest and the nicest to deal with for me. The BMW store was close on service and a little further back on price. Autowest was way back on both! So far I am very happy with my dealings with Brian Jessel. That said, sounds like Kevinwu930 hasn't had good luck with Jessel. I (as a Brian Jessel customer) hope your case is one of few and I hope I never have any issues with them! . Selling a car and buying a new one is a stressful time and you should not have to put up with that shit! Good luck getting your money back.

looking · 04-22-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fe1rx

And what do you think of "buyers" who sign things they don't read and don't keep a copy of?

Lets face it, it was obvious the deposit would be returned eventually. I would say the dealer waited just long enough to make sure that this buyer won't come back again to pull their chain on another "deal". Maybe that isn't so idiotic.

^^
Spoken like a true sale person.

First, I don't think the formalities of a contract is all satisfied - offer and acceptance. This mean there's no contact for sales at all.

With that said,if you read this first post, the buyer might not have read the whole contract, but he was aware that the sale was conditional - based on the trade-in/test drive. In fact the buyer states that the SA wrote down the term on the dealers copy of the contract. In addition, regardless of if the buyer has read the whole contract, because the contract was on the dealers standard term- 1 basic contract for all buyers- the buyer does NOT need to read every single term. If you decided to take this to court, the court would need to consider what the main issue of the contract was and when the contract is completed.

In terms of this making bad business sense. There are a lot of reasons, but the main one is that you want return customers and you want to keep a good name. Also don't forget dealers make money of service too, so while this customer might have bought this car from another dealer, it is possible that he could have returned to BJ for servicing of the car.

fe1rx · 04-23-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excel

^^
Spoken like a true sale person.

No, just someone who finds this pathetic tale a bit less than dramatic. Cancelled on the 16th, deposit returned on the 21st - should we wring our hands over this? The whole story is one-sided and doesn't pass the smell test. It was obvious that the deposit would be returned for reasons you have elaborated. It is not even a question of legality, but of good business sense (which I think we can safely attribute to one party to this "deal"). This "buyer" could have cancelled his "order" for ANY reason and he would have got his deposit back. The car wasn't even custom ordered.

Forgive me if I find this thread, and the rabid reaction it elicits in some quarters a bit overwrought.

looking · 04-24-2008, 03:50 AM

^^^
Yes I agree, there's probably something more to it. In addition, buyers can be just as bad as dealers, it's a vicious cycle! With that said, I'll give the buyer the benefit of the doubt 99% of the time.

koala · 04-24-2008, 11:19 AM

There is no question he left out some of the story, but the bottom line is that the dealer should have returned his deposit to him in a timely fashion.

Where the dealer went wrong is by not firming up the deal. I'd argue there never was a guaranteed sale there, because obviously the bill of sale hadn't been completed at the time of order.

It's just a tough sale to work on because of the fact that this guy wanted to trade in a car, but the deal really wasn't going to be completed for a month or two.

1Ronnie · 05-07-2008, 05:56 PM

Yeah, interesting, glad that Jessel did the right thing. Again in a positive light, I just ordered a 128i and got a reasonable discount on the floor. I had been talking to Park Shore, and they sent me a quote with a higher discount after I had signed with Jessel (I hadn't told Park Shore I had switched to Jessel). Even though I was signed, Jessel did the right thing and matched ... thanks guys if you're watching.

04-17-2008, 05:21 PM	#23
1HungryMan Lieutenant 24 Rep 536 Posts Drives: 2008 128i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	That is b.s. plain and simple. I did almost the same thing as you did minus the trade in with BMW Toronto and they kindly refunded my deposit the same day I cancelled my order. They were very good about the whole thing. I wouldn't let that nonsense stand assuming there's not more to the story.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-17-2008, 09:37 PM	#24
kevinwu930 New Member 2 Rep 21 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	I just got off from a very frustrating phone call with my SA at Brian Jessel. Apparently they know I have been writing on this forum. I can't stand their BS anymore. He told me they were doing everything they can to help me. The reason why they wouldn't give me my deposit back is because I should've faxed my offer from Park Shore to them so they can match it. So now it becomes my fault. He also told me that his manager is very upset about this. I just can't understand why they are doing this. Giving up $1500 in exchange of a good reputation, I think it is worth it. Anwyay, I am waiting for the BBB's response, if they decide not to give the deposit back (which I think is very likely), I will take the case to small claims court.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-17-2008, 09:38 PM	#25
koala Second Lieutenant 4 Rep 228 Posts Drives: 06 BMW M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Edmonton, AB CA iTrader: (0)	Good, if they know you've been writing on this forum then they know how much bad publicity this is for them. I have lots of friends in Vancouver and I'll make sure they know never to do business at Brian Jessel. Being in retail myself, I appreciate their wanting to know about your other deal and having the opportunity to match it, but they should not, under any circumstance, blame this on you. That is just a poor excuse for refusing to refund and it's another reflection on just how terrible their dealership must be. __________________ 2006 M Coupe \| Interlagos Blue \| Black Interior.
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04-17-2008, 10:09 PM	#26
warmtoes Lieutenant Colonel 31 Rep 1,917 Posts Drives: EBII 435i xDrive Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (1)	It is a crazy move not to give your deposit back. There are tons of people wanting these cars. It's only $1500 versus getting your reputation ruined. Not smart. If Brian Jessel himself knew about this I'm sure he would be pissed at his guys for allowing it to get all over a BMW forum. __________________ *2014 EBII 435i xDrive M-sport* Gone: 2011 TiAg F25 X3 xDrive35i M-sport Gone: 2008 TiAg w/Coral Red E88 135i Cab M-sport
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04-17-2008, 10:37 PM	#28
Bringinthewolf 1 for the road 21 Rep 780 Posts Drives: SGM 135i Cabrio Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Vancouver, B.C. iTrader: (0)	You should not need to fax them a copy of your other quote. That is total :bs: You gave them a shot and they gave you their price which you assumed was the best they could do. Maybe they should have been sharper to begin with. You're not buying a used car from some shady outfit on Kingsway your buying a BMW for Christ sakes. __________________ "So the question is — do you want comfort and size, or do you want to drive?"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-20-2008, 05:23 PM	#29
looking Captain 36 Rep 602 Posts Drives: 135 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	Hey, I've been following this thread and this is the typical dealer stall tactic. I've sold cars in Van for a while and the reason they want you to give them the invoice is because, dealer networks get together to discuss "issues" they, as a network they are experiencing. As part of these meetings they agree (gentlemen agreement) not to undercut each other - hence when you find a better deal they want to know who's under cutting. Now, no dealer is every going to admit but, I assure you it's the case. It's funny how this car sales people can't even trust their own! What can you do to get your money back? 1) BBB is a good way, something faster-is 2) go in on a Weekend and make a fuss in their show room - Make sure it's prime time- after lunch is usually pretty good. Will you get kicked off the lot? Yes, for sure, but nothing stops you from standing in front of their lot and stopping cars before they go in. Tell every car you stop what happened -you might even want to printout something to hand the cars you stopped. I know this is pretty extreme but, I've seen a dealer exchange a car for a customer, using this tactic. You have a right to protest ("peaceful" gathering)- or inform other customer. 3) Can BMW Canada and let them know your issue with this dealer. In terms of dealers reading this board? I'm not surprised - makes you wonder why someone would want the name of the SA - could it be his manager, dealer principle? I've been on big boards where the Manufacture actually monitor the boards to gather warranty rejection evidence. Don't for get this is a public forum. Good luck and don't stress over it...They want you to be PO'd over this so, just be professional and professional.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-21-2008, 12:49 PM	#30
kevinwu930 New Member 2 Rep 21 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0)	BBB just forwarded me the response letter from Brian Jessel. Quoted "Although I believe it is within our legal right to withhold Mr.Wu's $1500 deposit I will issue a refund credit." oh well, I've wasted too much time and energy on this non-sense. Case is closed
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-21-2008, 12:59 PM	#31
looking Captain 36 Rep 602 Posts Drives: 135 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	^^^ Good to hear. Like I said they want you to stress out. I think dealers that choose to withhold deposits are just idiotic. It just doesn't make smart business sense.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-21-2008, 07:04 PM	#34
PhAzE Second Lieutenant 29 Rep 226 Posts Drives: AW 1m (soon) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, B.C. iTrader: (0)	Well if you look at it, you went in and signed some papers and put your deposit down. Do you honestly think they'd want to let you go? I'm sure if you had actually brought those quotes from Parkshore over, they would have met those numbers exactly. They don't want anyone pulling their leg being haggled down. IMO from my experience Brian Jessel is the best bmw dealership out of the 4 that I know. What you should have done was just back out of the deal all together, they would have given your deposit back then instead of try to keep you and compete with park shore.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-21-2008, 07:17 PM	#35
vanbmw Major 130 Rep 1,101 Posts Drives: 2015 Black 335i Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	First off I have no experience with Park shore BMW. Before purchasing my 135 at Brian Jessel I went to Autowest BMW and the BMW store and got trade in quotes on my current car and quotes on the 135. Brian Jessel was the cheapest and the nicest to deal with for me. The BMW store was close on service and a little further back on price. Autowest was way back on both! So far I am very happy with my dealings with Brian Jessel. That said, sounds like Kevinwu930 hasn't had good luck with Jessel. I (as a Brian Jessel customer) hope your case is one of few and I hope I never have any issues with them! . Selling a car and buying a new one is a stressful time and you should not have to put up with that shit! Good luck getting your money back.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-24-2008, 03:50 AM	#38
looking Captain 36 Rep 602 Posts Drives: 135 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	^^^ Yes I agree, there's probably something more to it. In addition, buyers can be just as bad as dealers, it's a vicious cycle! With that said, I'll give the buyer the benefit of the doubt 99% of the time.
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04-24-2008, 11:19 AM	#39
koala Second Lieutenant 4 Rep 228 Posts Drives: 06 BMW M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Edmonton, AB CA iTrader: (0)	There is no question he left out some of the story, but the bottom line is that the dealer should have returned his deposit to him in a timely fashion. Where the dealer went wrong is by not firming up the deal. I'd argue there never was a guaranteed sale there, because obviously the bill of sale hadn't been completed at the time of order. It's just a tough sale to work on because of the fact that this guy wanted to trade in a car, but the deal really wasn't going to be completed for a month or two. __________________ 2006 M Coupe \| Interlagos Blue \| Black Interior.
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05-07-2008, 05:56 PM	#40
1Ronnie Ronnie 15 Rep 556 Posts Drives: '08 Sedona 128i Join Date: May 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	Yeah, interesting, glad that Jessel did the right thing. Again in a positive light, I just ordered a 128i and got a reasonable discount on the floor. I had been talking to Park Shore, and they sent me a quote with a higher discount after I had signed with Jessel (I hadn't told Park Shore I had switched to Jessel). Even though I was signed, Jessel did the right thing and matched ... thanks guys if you're watching.
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