Are built motors neccessary?

EJ_3 · 10-23-2011, 08:17 AM

Greetings,

Here's the deal. I was having a heated coversation with a few buddies of mines what all we have planned and how much power we'll be pushing and one of them (a real gear head) told me that mines sounds good, but not realistic without having a built motor. So my question is, or where do you draw the line when it's time to start building your motor or it neccessary to have my motor rebuilt to run 450-500 whp safely? Thanks in advance.

More info:
52k miles
Upgrading to Stage 2+ soon
Possibly upgrading turbos next year
Weekend Cruiser
Don't track

Royal Flush · 10-23-2011, 08:22 AM

There are plenty of people getting those numbers without rebuilding their motors.

Apogee · 10-23-2011, 08:24 AM

moving parts eventually break, its highly recommended if you are planning on making higher horsepower that you build your engine however for that horsepower range it seems the N54 holds up pretty well. Forge components will make your engine last longer. Now there's a rumor on the forums that the N54 initially comes with forge components from factory but that's to be proven.

EJ_3 · 10-23-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apogee

moving parts eventually break, its highly recommended if you are planning on making higher horsepower that you build your engine however for that horsepower range it seems the N54 holds up pretty well. Forge components will make your engine last longer. Now there's a rumor on the forums that the N54 initially comes with forge components from factory but that's to be proven.

I hope it's true, I have a 07/07 build

. Thanks for the info and everyone's quick responses!

Royal Flush · 10-23-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apogee

moving parts eventually break, its highly recommended if you are planning on making higher horsepower that you build your engine however for that horsepower range it seems the N54 holds up pretty well. Forge components will make your engine last longer. Now there's a rumor on the forums that the N54 initially comes with forge components from factory but that's to be proven.

That's not a rumor? It's been proven by members who had their internals opened up. I believe the date range is 07-late 09, although I'm not 100% sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny_World

I hope it's true, I have a 07/07 build

. Thanks for the info and everyone's quick responses!

Almost positive that yours are forged.

R1000K3 · 10-23-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny_World

I hope it's true, I have a 07/07 build

. Thanks for the info and everyone's quick responses!

Same build date for my 335 and it has been tuned for three years. The last year it has been runned @ about 20 PSI without grenading. The power level is well above 400 whp.

The day it needs to be replaced it will be quite difficult to find something that has equal performance

Turkeybaster115 · 10-23-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny_World

Greetings,

Here's the deal. I was having a heated coversation with a few buddies of mines what all we have planned and how much power we'll be pushing and one of them (a real gear head) told me that mines sounds good, but not realistic without having a built motor. So my question is, or where do you draw the line when it's time to start building your motor or it neccessary to have my motor rebuilt to run 450-500 whp safely? Thanks in advance.

More info:
52k miles
Upgrading to Stage 2+ soon
Possibly upgrading turbos next year
Weekend Cruiser
Don't track

As far as we know, early N54's seem to have forged everything except for pistons, which might be Cast Iron. If making well north of 400 horse, its worth checking to make sure you have forged pistons.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-23-2011, 12:05 PM

I'd personally build this motor if in excess of 550WHP....maybe even closer to excess of 600. No one has really found the limit of the stock motor.

Brey335i · 10-23-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I'd personally build this motor if in excess of 550WHP....maybe even closer to excess of 600. No one has really found the limit of the stock motor.

Some people apparently have...

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-23-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Some people apparently have...

Who? What power? Was it properly tuned?

Brey335i · 10-23-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

? What power? Was it properly tuned?

Idk. Just heard rumors that oldbooster and someone else might have popped their engines. Don't know any details. It was just brought up.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-23-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

Idk. Just heard rumors that oldbooster and someone else might have popped their engines. Don't know any details. It was just brought up.

...No comment.

EJ_3 · 10-23-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I'd personally build this motor if in excess of 550WHP....maybe even closer to excess of 600. No one has really found the limit of the stock motor.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind. Do you rebuild motors, if so, can you send me a quote? I don't track, so it wouldn't be a high priority, but a safety net if I feel the need.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-23-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny_World

Cool, I'll keep that in mind. Do you rebuild motors, if so, can you send me a quote? I don't track, so it wouldn't be a high priority, but a safety net if I feel the need.

We dont build motors, sorry.

Q4P · 10-23-2011, 01:03 PM

No one has a built motor as far as I am concerned in an N54/N55... Built motors are only necessary for consistent power at very high levels. Even with 550 WHP it appears the N54 holds well on stock internals. No one has really crossed that level yet, but I have a feeling who every goes closer to 600 and above will be very smart to do so... There is only so much stock internals will hold.

Brey335i · 10-23-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

We dont build motors, sorry.

You can always expand

IMO, you will see few built motors on this platform even ten years from now. If I was in the market to pick up a car and do substantial engine work then this car is too heavy and problem prone...

JoosyJoos · 10-23-2011, 01:44 PM

Just as a point of reference (and nothing else), the S50/s52 bottom end is good for about 550whp on a turbo set-up. The valve-train and head gasket doesnt hold up quite as well on those older engines.

I'm assuming the head on the N54 is completely different but the bottom end on these engines hasnt changed much over the past 15 years--- it's always been an evolution. Not sure if the crank is forged/cast though.

I don't think you'll see too many built N54's because as people are finding out... it's harder than thought to swap the turbos out. Not to say it can't be done but the cost is a major hurdle for a lot of people when compared to the first 130whp you can pick up for relatively little cash.

Wedge1967 · 10-23-2011, 01:53 PM

HPF and a few others are working on a single turbo kit to get 500+ without NOS, but one of the issues they keep telling me about making that kind of HP is the fuel delivery system currently is not able to produce that level of power without going to a higher pressure aftermarket fuel pump or a fuel rail system that is managed by an after market fuel managment system as a replacement or as a secondary system to the stock system that provides additional fuel as needed to produce those numbers. I personally haven't found anyone who knows the full limitation to the stock N54, but I'm sure once someone has a system as such they will quickly find those limits. If you're just looking to put down 450 rwhp I think you'll find that people have been doing that for a while now with stock blocks. Sure, you'll have a few instances in the past of failure, but for the most part the tunes you'll find that are on the market making 400+ are solid regardless of product you decide the purchase. (If you aren't willing to take the risk, then leave it stock.)

GreekMaverick · 10-23-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apogee

there's a rumor on the forums that the N54 initially comes with forge components from factory but that's to be proven.

Not a rumor, had my gasket replaced by my tech under warranty, engine was open apart, off the car in pieces my mechanic was completely wow'd with the internals being forged, not that I Could tell the difference but the Mech could, the guy had a 360 rebuilt sitting in a bay next to mine and a Bentley with a blown tranny out the back.

2007 e92 98K miles...boosted since 1.5K miles with turbo tuner/Xede/JB/Procede...

Apogee · 10-23-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekMaverick

Not a rumor, had my gasket replaced by my tech under warranty, engine was open apart, off the car in pieces my mechanic was completely wow'd with the internals being forged, not that I Could tell the difference but the Mech could, the guy had a 360 rebuilt sitting in a bay next to mine and a Bentley with a blown tranny out the beck.

2007 e92 98K miles...boosted since 1.5K miles with turbo tuner/Xede/JB/Procede...

that's impressive, I have an 07 335xi im wondering if my engine is equipped with forged internals.

Royal Flush · 10-23-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apogee

that's impressive, I have an 07 335xi im wondering if my engine is equipped with forged internals.

Forged

Bullet · 10-23-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Flush

I believe the date range is 07-late 09, although I'm not 100% sure.

Wait the cut off was in late 2009?? Can anyone confirm this??

10-23-2011, 08:17 AM	#1
EJ_3 Colonel 371 Rep 2,838 Posts Drives: e92 335i, e34 525i & e60 530i Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: N Las Vegas iTrader: (13) Garage List 2007 BMW 335i [8.34] 2016 Ram 1500 Sport [8.00] 1994 BMW 525i [10.00] 2007 BMW 530i [8.66]	Are built motors neccessary? Greetings, Here's the deal. I was having a heated coversation with a few buddies of mines what all we have planned and how much power we'll be pushing and one of them (a real gear head) told me that mines sounds good, but not realistic without having a built motor. So my question is, or where do you draw the line when it's time to start building your motor or it neccessary to have my motor rebuilt to run 450-500 whp safely? Thanks in advance. More info: 52k miles Upgrading to Stage 2+ soon Possibly upgrading turbos next year Weekend Cruiser Don't track __________________ click here for mods
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10-23-2011, 08:22 AM	#2
Royal Flush Major 74 Rep 1,309 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Not everyone who wanders is lost. iTrader: (2)	There are plenty of people getting those numbers without rebuilding their motors.
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10-23-2011, 08:24 AM	#3
Apogee Second Lieutenant 3 Rep 232 Posts Drives: 335d/Lancer Evolution X Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Olympia, Washington iTrader: (1)	moving parts eventually break, its highly recommended if you are planning on making higher horsepower that you build your engine however for that horsepower range it seems the N54 holds up pretty well. Forge components will make your engine last longer. Now there's a rumor on the forums that the N54 initially comes with forge components from factory but that's to be proven.
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10-23-2011, 12:05 PM	#8
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3441 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	I'd personally build this motor if in excess of 550WHP....maybe even closer to excess of 600. No one has really found the limit of the stock motor.
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10-23-2011, 01:03 PM	#15
Q4P Colonel 83 Rep 2,291 Posts Drives: Too Much Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: World iTrader: (0)	No one has a built motor as far as I am concerned in an N54/N55... Built motors are only necessary for consistent power at very high levels. Even with 550 WHP it appears the N54 holds well on stock internals. No one has really crossed that level yet, but I have a feeling who every goes closer to 600 and above will be very smart to do so... There is only so much stock internals will hold. __________________ 2jZ + RB26 + 4G63 + LS9 + N54 =
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10-23-2011, 01:44 PM	#17
JoosyJoos Major 113 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	Just as a point of reference (and nothing else), the S50/s52 bottom end is good for about 550whp on a turbo set-up. The valve-train and head gasket doesnt hold up quite as well on those older engines. I'm assuming the head on the N54 is completely different but the bottom end on these engines hasnt changed much over the past 15 years--- it's always been an evolution. Not sure if the crank is forged/cast though. I don't think you'll see too many built N54's because as people are finding out... it's harder than thought to swap the turbos out. Not to say it can't be done but the cost is a major hurdle for a lot of people when compared to the first 130whp you can pick up for relatively little cash. __________________ 1997 M3 Coupe - BMWCCA I-Prepared #22 2006 M Roadster - 23,000 miles and slowly counting
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10-23-2011, 01:53 PM	#18
Wedge1967 Banned 125 Rep 2,172 Posts Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (3)	HPF and a few others are working on a single turbo kit to get 500+ without NOS, but one of the issues they keep telling me about making that kind of HP is the fuel delivery system currently is not able to produce that level of power without going to a higher pressure aftermarket fuel pump or a fuel rail system that is managed by an after market fuel managment system as a replacement or as a secondary system to the stock system that provides additional fuel as needed to produce those numbers. I personally haven't found anyone who knows the full limitation to the stock N54, but I'm sure once someone has a system as such they will quickly find those limits. If you're just looking to put down 450 rwhp I think you'll find that people have been doing that for a while now with stock blocks. Sure, you'll have a few instances in the past of failure, but for the most part the tunes you'll find that are on the market making 400+ are solid regardless of product you decide the purchase. (If you aren't willing to take the risk, then leave it stock.)
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