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      11-19-2020, 04:10 PM   #1
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BMW 12th on Consumer Reports annual auto reliability list for 2021

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...vs/6337648002/

BMW as a brand ranks 12th. Better than Tesla though.

"While infotainment systems remain problematic in many cases, owners are increasingly reporting flaws with their vehicle transmissions, as well, according to Consumer Reports. Fisher attributed the trend to automakers' introduction of high-tech transmissions, such as dual-clutch gear-shifters, a form of automatic transmission that uses electronic controls to mimic the performance of a manual."
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      11-19-2020, 04:24 PM   #2
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Happy to see Mazda at the top of the list. Hopefully buyers start seeing this and actually realize they make some excellent vehicles!
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      11-19-2020, 04:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Happy to see Mazda at the top of the list. Hopefully buyers start seeing this and actually realize they make some excellent vehicles!
No joke about their infotainment systems though, which they note is partly why their reliability is a bit higher. Love the 3 though. Bananas car for the $
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      11-19-2020, 04:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Happy to see Mazda at the top of the list. Hopefully buyers start seeing this and actually realize they make some excellent vehicles!
No joke about their infotainment systems though, which they note is partly why their reliability is a bit higher. Love the 3 though. Bananas car for the $
Their old infotainment was mediocre but the new one in the 3 and CX-30 is pretty decent. And its now expanded to the rest of the lineup (other than the Miata and 6) for 2021, so hopefully that will fix the critiques.

My oldest son has has a 6 Signature (alongside his NB) and its a really nice car, much more luxurious than any Accord or Camry, drives well too. He's eagerly awaiting Mazda's I6 + RWD platform.
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      11-19-2020, 04:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...vs/6337648002/

BMW as a brand ranks 12th. Better than Tesla though.

"While infotainment systems remain problematic in many cases, owners are increasingly reporting flaws with their vehicle transmissions, as well, according to Consumer Reports. Fisher attributed the trend to automakers' introduction of high-tech transmissions, such as dual-clutch gear-shifters, a form of automatic transmission that uses electronic controls to mimic the performance of a manual."
Well DCT transmission in BMW's are going bye bye.
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      11-19-2020, 05:06 PM   #6
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Jeep, a perennial on the "shit list" managed to get 2 of their 6 models on the "least reliable" list. Impressive, but Volvo beat them with 2 out of their 5. Looks like the Cadillac Escalade scraped itself off the bottom of the reliability pile somehow.
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      11-19-2020, 05:08 PM   #7
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I'm curious as to what issues seem to be plaguing the X3, one would think it would be more reliable than an X5, but according to CR its below average (dropping further than last year) while the 3er and X5 are average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consumer Reports
BMW ranks 12th overall, up five spots from last year. It saw improvements in its 2019 redesigned models, with the 3 Series moving to above average and the X5 coming in at average. The X5 still has infotainment system screen freezing and other glitches with the system, such as upside-down on-screen images. Other models from the automaker are a mixed bag, with the X1 above average, the X3 dropping to below average.
Consumer Reports Identifies Mix of New SUVs, Cars & Trucks That Are Dependable

I would also love to see what was categorized as electrical issues vs drivetrain issues.
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      11-19-2020, 08:43 PM   #8
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Higher than MB, Tesla 2nd to last. I'll take it.
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      11-19-2020, 09:07 PM   #9
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MB is characteristically near the bottom, a pity for the brand.
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      11-19-2020, 09:12 PM   #10
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I don't trust CU's opinion on anything more complex than a toaster, and I'm not really sure about those ratings, either.

I remember when they rated the old 2002 as conditionally acceptable because if you loaded it with five adults and their luggage, the diff housing barely cleared a pack of Pall Mall cigarettes (their prop). And then there was their E28 "electrical" rating black spot. It seemed when you failed to turn off your radio and subsequently drove through an automatic car wash, your antenna would break or bend. Voila! Electrical problem. Which is why the E34 had the antenna in the glass (before that was really perfected).

But what really blows my mind is when they test two identical cars from two different years that are otherwise exactly the same vehicle and yet rate one highly and the other as a failure. I know that's not the case. You know that's not the case, but since CU uses input from their subscriber/members, their universe of data providers is automatically skewed by the pocket-protector, Honda owning, engineers—very few of who own a BMW in the first place. And these guys mostly wouldn't ever consider a car a source of pleasure, but rather an appliance. But, of course, that's MHO.
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      11-19-2020, 11:21 PM   #11
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I tend to disagree. I've looked into them in the past and their test methods and raw data are excellent. And they do a good job telling you how they rank things, so that you can come to different conclusions easily. I've found their list of car issues almost perfectly matches mine, and things do indeed flip for exactly the same vehicle when an issue is fixed, say high pressure fuel pumps. Their car testers also seem to be car guys that legit race on weekends.

I get what you're saying, take them as everything with a grain of salt. But from what I've found over the years they're not near as bad as you made it sound.
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      11-19-2020, 11:53 PM   #12
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"One (Tesla) owner found what they thought was human hair stuck in the paint," Fisher said. "We don’t see other manufacturers having those types of issues." This would really drive me crazy!
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      11-20-2020, 11:17 AM   #13
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Tesla hasn't hit puberty as a carmaker yet. Hair in paint, and other kindergarten-level slip ups, have solutions today. They have not availed themselves of commonly available expertise in the auto industry.
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      11-20-2020, 11:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Tesla hasn't hit puberty as a carmaker yet. Hair in paint, and other kindergarten-level slip ups, have solutions today. They have not availed themselves of commonly available expertise in the auto industry.
Tesla is great in many ways. But their manufacturing needs years to get up to par. Disinterest in EVs aside, horrendous and omnipresent manufacturing defects and generally inferior luxury compared to established brands makes Tesla a no-go for me. For that kind of money, I couldn't tolerate living with 'you have got to be kidding me' level issues with my car... And their turnaround time on fixing issues is incredibly slow. Several months. I understand the 'point A to point B' people who don't fuss over imperfections with their cars. Conversely, I hope that Tesla fans can understand people who think crooked panels are a big deal.
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      11-20-2020, 11:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consumer Reports View Post
such as dual-clutch gear-shifters, a form of automatic transmission that uses electronic controls to mimic the performance of a manual.
Anyone else slightly miffed by this line? While I'm no linguist myself, calling a transmission a "gear shifter" and then going on to describe a DCT in a fairly inaccurate and backwards way doesn't reflect the knowledge of a trusted source of automotive journalism.
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      11-20-2020, 12:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consumer Reports View Post
such as dual-clutch gear-shifters, a form of automatic transmission that uses electronic controls to mimic the performance of a manual.
Anyone else slightly miffed by this line? While I'm no linguist myself, calling a transmission a "gear shifter" and then going on to describe a DCT in a fairly inaccurate and backwards way doesn't reflect the knowledge of a trusted source of automotive journalism.
Its a little clunky, but also pretty spot on for someone trying to break down a DCT to non-enthusiasts imho
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      11-23-2020, 02:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Its a little clunky, but also pretty spot on for someone trying to break down a DCT to non-enthusiasts imho
I think it's misleading for non-enthusiasts. A DCT is a manual transmission (clutch vs torque converter) that uses electronic controls to mimic the convenience of an automatic. It doesn't need to "mimic the performance of a manual" because DCT boxes and modern automatics can shift faster than someone can in a traditional manual trans. Buying a manual today is about the experience, not the performance.
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      11-23-2020, 08:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
I think it's misleading for non-enthusiasts. A DCT is a manual transmission (clutch vs torque converter) that uses electronic controls to mimic the convenience of an automatic. It doesn't need to "mimic the performance of a manual" because DCT boxes and modern automatics can shift faster than someone can in a traditional manual trans. Buying a manual today is about the experience, not the performance.
I'd call a DCT an automatic. It shifts for you. It uses a clutch, two of them, but it does the job for you.

I'd also say performance fits, the definition of performance is more about what something does or how it works. Let's rephrase that part to say the DCT mimics the operation of a manual. Performance and operation are interchangeable words. Performance need not be faster or slower or better or worse. You're adding your own definition of what performance means, that they are implying better performance. There's also poor performance. But they didn't say that either.

I'm halfway just messing with you. But I do think you're a little concerned about something that isn't actually incorrect.
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      11-23-2020, 09:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merami fan View Post
Tesla is great in many ways. But their manufacturing needs years to get up to par. Disinterest in EVs aside, horrendous and omnipresent manufacturing defects and generally inferior luxury compared to established brands makes Tesla a no-go for me. For that kind of money, I couldn't tolerate living with 'you have got to be kidding me' level issues with my car... And their turnaround time on fixing issues is incredibly slow. Several months. I understand the 'point A to point B' people who don't fuss over imperfections with their cars. Conversely, I hope that Tesla fans can understand people who think crooked panels are a big deal.
Tesla really needs to step up otherwise they'll be losing to other, more established brands like BMW with better quality EVs. Especially with the iX coming soon!
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      11-23-2020, 10:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR_Motorwerkz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merami fan View Post
Tesla is great in many ways. But their manufacturing needs years to get up to par. Disinterest in EVs aside, horrendous and omnipresent manufacturing defects and generally inferior luxury compared to established brands makes Tesla a no-go for me. For that kind of money, I couldn't tolerate living with 'you have got to be kidding me' level issues with my car... And their turnaround time on fixing issues is incredibly slow. Several months. I understand the 'point A to point B' people who don't fuss over imperfections with their cars. Conversely, I hope that Tesla fans can understand people who think crooked panels are a big deal.
Tesla really needs to step up otherwise they'll be losing to other, more established brands like BMW with better quality EVs. Especially with the iX coming soon!
I don't see established brands taking over Tesla for quite some time. Ford, a company who has been around for 100+ years, still has abysmal build quality issues (just look at the botched Aviator/Explorer launch) and yet they still do well. Most people outside of the enthusiast circle (of which we are a minority) don't prioritize build quality high on their lists, and it shows that even despite such issues Tesla's customer satisfaction is incredibly high.
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      11-24-2020, 10:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...vs/6337648002/

BMW as a brand ranks 12th. Better than Tesla though.

"While infotainment systems remain problematic in many cases, owners are increasingly reporting flaws with their vehicle transmissions, as well, according to Consumer Reports. Fisher attributed the trend to automakers' introduction of high-tech transmissions, such as dual-clutch gear-shifters, a form of automatic transmission that uses electronic controls to mimic the performance of a manual."
My LCD screen in M235i is delaminating.
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      11-24-2020, 10:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I don't see established brands taking over Tesla for quite some time. Ford, a company who has been around for 100+ years, still has abysmal build quality issues (just look at the botched Aviator/Explorer launch) and yet they still do well. Most people outside of the enthusiast circle (of which we are a minority) don't prioritize build quality high on their lists, and it shows that even despite such issues Tesla's customer satisfaction is incredibly high.
That's because these people are early adopters. Toyota (Lexus) and Honda made a name for themselves on build quality and reliability. The inverse is true, as American cars suffered for a while under the assumption they were less reliable and built worse.
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