[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by JSpira

They're right - you failed them and cost them on CSI money.

If you were happy with them overall, they should have gotten all 5's.

The way the system works is unfortunate, but it's been discussed so often and is common across all vehicle mfr's that it's pretty straight forward: it's either pass (5) or fail (4-3-2-1).

I agree with JSpira,

My CA prepared me for the rating system in advance, and so did this board. He let me know how important it was for him to receive all 5's, that anything less was seen as a fail. I knew in advance if I was happy with the service I should give all 5's. I also reserved in my mind that if I was unhappy with anything I could give less than 5's, but I would also let my CA know that I was planning to do that.

If I have a problem with service or anything else I think it's only fair to give the CA a chance to address and correct it.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by JSpira

You did good.

ROFL.

Thanks.

[Jay_328]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

ROFL.

Thanks.

I thought you were done.

[Jean330xi]

You know, this ratings thing isn't rocket science.

But I am not surprised that this happened with the OP. His posts indicate he absorbs very little that is posted here and then comes and posts things to demonstrate this fact.

So now, he has really assured himself a lose lose situation with the dealership, also known as a promise to get ice in the wintertime.

(Regarding his interest in putting down a deposit on a car that hasn't even been introduced yet, well if the dealership will take his money for an as of yet non existent car, more power to them.)

[stressdoc]

The system is BS. It's corrupt and meaningless.

[Darrel Revok]

I am glad I have been reading here. My SA just asked me to give him good grades all across if I remember correctly. Perhaps he said fives, but I don't remember so it wasn't that impressionable.

I actually told him I understand fours are no good and then he told me "fours are zeros."

I would have felt really bad for screwing him with 4s because he deserves every penny. So thanks E90post.

But I have to admit that rating system is like a cruel joke on them.

[Yobyot]

Originally Posted by lni

Do any of you guys have this sticker on your work orders? I was thinking they were common, but nobody mentions them.

It's so wild that BMW Gallery Norwood/Norwell puts these stickers on their ROs.

I bought my car there for ED delivery last year. They were absolute jerks. I called the salesrep from Europe and was told, "our financial transaction is over." They redelivered the car without important stuff, like the nav DVD. Calls to service were never returned. And they never once called or asked about the car.

IMO, dealing with these people is exactly like dealing with your worst nightmare of a cross between a polyester-clad salesrep selling Yugos and a rug merchant.

If you're in the Boston area, you should avoid this dealership. 5? They don't rate a -5.

[hotsand5]

My cousin is a mechanic for VW, and he told me that while taking those surveys, if you give them all 5's (passing) then they put a symbol next to your name in the computer at that dealer which tells them if you were one to pass or fail them. Well, you fail them and when you call them w/ a problem...good luck trying to get an appointment when it is convenient for you....a loaner, sure, give them a 3 week minimum notice before you come in, and be certain that you car is sitting overnight if anything more than routine maintenence. You pass them, and ahhh, a miracle you get a loaner for an oil change! Like the members said, you have to play the game....but you can hold the carrot in front of them to get what you want too.

[hotsand5]

yobyot, you should have gotton your nav dvd at the dealer....it does not come with your car after doing the ED. The same goes with your manual.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by hotsand5

My cousin is a mechanic for VW, and he told me that while taking those surveys, if you give them all 5's (passing) then they put a symbol next to your name in the computer at that dealer which tells them if you were one to pass or fail them. Well, you fail them and when you call them w/ a problem...good luck trying to get an appointment when it is convenient for you....a loaner, sure, give them a 3 week minimum notice before you come in, and be certain that you car is sitting overnight if anything more than routine maintenence. You pass them, and ahhh, a miracle you get a loaner for an oil change! Like the members said, you have to play the game....but you can hold the carrot in front of them to get what you want too.

Precisely, and the OP - as someone who has been posting here for more than 10 minutes - should have known the game and played along intelligently.

[bmwexecutive]

UPDATE

Here was the Sales Managers response:

************************************************** *******
Anything less than a "5" is considered by BMW to be a failing grade. And when you name people by name (me and NAME) and say they "didn't know" (NAME) or had "mood swings" and were bordering on "rude" (me) then that is also a personal mark against NAME and me on our internal BMW reports.

I have no idea why you would say these things about a dealer that jumped through hoops to meet a lowball price. We dealt with dozens of questions, emails, and phone calls. We worked as hard as we could to satisfy you even though the deal was a very thin one, profit-wise.

And your thanks for all we did was to cream us when it came to the follow-upcall from BMW.

We're done here.
************************************************** *******

My response to that:

First of all the rating chart was explained to me as 1 being the worst and 5 being the best. Not 1,2,3 and 4 means fail and 5 means pass. If that were the case why aren't the questions done in such a manner as "Yes" it was satisfactory or "No" it was not? Regardless, my responses were true to what I believe and the mere fact that you're now exibiting a sour grabes attitude after the BMW evaluation is something that I would suggest you sincerely look at as it is indicative as to why I gave the ratings I did and speaks for itself.

It's unfortunate but it looks as though we won't be dealing with each other again.
************************************************** *******

Whatever. Time to start looking for a new dealership to buy my M3 Sedan from in 16 months.

[BMW F22]

The system IS a joke. I seriously think it was created just to screw salesmen over. When I was working at the dealership, I f*cking hate that survey because customers would sometimes lie to your face. THey dont care about you. THey got what they came for: a great car at a great price. In the end, Im the one who gets "the talk" from the managers.

\Im the kind of person who learns from his experiences. I also try to keep an open mind when I read stuff on this forums and try to understand where others are coming from. Some of you will never understand why you should just give them 5s even when the transaction wasnt perfect.

Say you had a not so perfect transaction and the SA knows that too. Yet you gave him all 5s. I bet it'd make his day when he receives the survey. He might even start treating customers better so perhaps the next time you're in the market for a new BMW, he will remember what you've done for him and treat you like a king. Be a better man and do what you should, not what you could.

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

The system IS a joke. I seriously think it was created just to screw salesmen over. When I was working at the dealership, I f*cking hate that survey because customers would sometimes lie to your face. THey dont care about you. THey got what they came for: a great car at a great price. In the end, Im the one who gets "the talk" from the managers.

Exactly why should they care about you? Are they getting paid to do so?
No. On the contrary they give their hard earned money to buy something
that the company/dealer whose employee you are, makes/provides. And
the job for which you are getting paid for (and indirectly they are paying you
by buying the product) is to sell that at a profit and care for your customer.
Not the other way around.

Originally Posted by BMWE90

Im the kind of person who learns from his experiences. I
also try to keep an open mind when I read stuff on this forums and try to understand where others are coming from. Some of you will never understand why you should just give them 5s even when the transaction wasnt perfect.

I don't think you understand how businesses work. Sorry. The motivation
of the employee isn't the job of the customer.

Originally Posted by BMWE90

Say you had a not so perfect transaction and the SA knows
that too. Yet you gave him all 5s. I bet it'd make his day when he receives the survey. He might even start treating customers better so perhaps the next time you're in the market for a new BMW, he will remember what you've done for him and treat you like a king. Be a better man and do what you should, not what you could.

"He might even start treating customers better..."? You must be kidding me.
It is his job to treat customers excellent all the time no matter what. That's
part of his job description.

BMW wants excellence. Period. People should stop calling the system stupid,
flawed etc and understand that these are the standards BMW wants and
has set. And the benefits behind the rating system are not normalized for
exactly that reason. Dealers have the means to get all 5s from the customers
in every transaction. They should do that without telling them about the
ratings system, asking for 5s etc.

sc.-

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Cite me an incident where a dealer actually wronged someone, and then sent them an email complaining about recieving less than 5's... and you'd have a case.

That's easy to do. It happened to a friend of mine this week.

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

From what I can see, the emails we've seen so far
have come from dealers that have apparently gone very far out of their way for
the client, and in that other thread, were even promised they'd recieve all 5's!

You assume that. As you said. you know what they say about assumption.
The devil is in the details with all those e-mails. People shouldn't extrapolate
from those e-mails anything. Especially the "stupidity" or not of the ratings
system. BMW didn't put it in place overnight and without any thinking. And
the same goes for all the car manufacturers.

sc.-

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Exactly why should they care about you? Are they getting paid to do so?
No. On the contrary they give their hard earned money to buy something
that the company/dealer whose employee you are, makes/provides. And
the job for which you are getting paid for (and indirectly they are paying you
by buying the product) is to sell that at a profit and care for your customer.
Not the other way around.



I don't think you understand how businesses work. Sorry. The motivation
of the employee isn't the job of the customer.



"He might even start treating customers better..."? You must be kidding me.
It is his job to treat customers excellent all the time no matter what. That's
part of his job description.

BMW wants excellence. Period. People should stop calling the system stupid,
flawed etc and understand that these are the standards BMW wants and
has set. And the benefits behind the rating system are not normalized for
exactly that reason. Dealers have the means to get all 5s from the customers
in every transaction. They should do that without telling them about the
ratings system, asking for 5s etc.

sc.-

Dont know if you read my other posts but here goes...

First of all I hate customers who promised to give me all 5's and screwed me other later because of their moodswing. Sometimes they would think about that one little thing I did like not offering them water.

It is not a customer's job to care about their SA but it should be a moral for them to do so. Think about it: why would I want to spend hours helping a customer choose the right car when he's just gonna screw me over in the end, especially when they buy cars that are on sale ($100 commission pssshh). If I know a customer's gonna screw me over in the end, I would rather not help them out. It is our duty as rational beings to CARE (Ethics 101).

About the hard-earned money, please...do you know what it feels like to have to open up a bunch of cars on a scorching summer afternoon just to look for one with the least mileage on the odometer? Not only that, some customers also like to drive several cars in a row just to check for mech. problems. Oh and they also like to turn off the AC and roll up their windows just to see if the engine is loud or not. In the end: they get the car they want and take away my bonus by giving me low CSI scores. Talk about hard-earned money...

It's not in the job description that we MUST treat customers like kings & queens. A salesman's job is to meet & greet the customer and land them on a car that suits them best. By treating them right, we expect them to treat us right as well. It's a two way street my friend. Isnt that how businesses really work???

Lastly- yes, the salesman might actually learn from it and treat his/her customers better than he did. Think about it: he receives his CSI from you and is stoked that you gave him 100% on it. He's shocked because he knows that he didnt treat you as well as he could of. That'd probably make him wanna go out there and treat his customers even better than before. I know this is kinda hard to imagine but sometimes a small deed will in turn create 10 other good deeds.

Like I said, it is hard to see how stupid the system is unless you've been in it.

ACtually...say you're taking the last few classes in college so that you could graduate. Administration (BMW) has announced that anything less than an A is a failing grade. But wait a minute- I thought B (4) is a passing grade??? Well, what ever Admin says goes. So you ask your teacher to please give you an A so that you can graduate (for the SA this is like their bonus). The teacher promised to give you all As but gave you all Bs in the end because he felt like you didnt deserve an A. Now is that fair??? I mean Admin wants excellence right??

NOw what else can you (the dealer) do so that your teacher (the customer) will give me all As?? The dealer, of course, cannot keep lowering the price or give away accessories. As for you, you've tried your hardest but still, the teacher doesnt feel like you deserved an A. SOmetimes you gotta ask for it.
This is a true story: I received an email from my professor a few days ago telling me what my final grade in the class was. She said I got a 91.87% in the class and my grade is a B+. I emailed her back saying "I thought anything over 90% is an A??" She then apologize for making that mistake and changed my grade.

And you say the system isnt flawed...

[larryn]

Don't blame the customer. You should be blaming BMWNA. They play both sides of the coin. On one hand they tell you that only 5's are acceptable, then call my house and say a 5 is excellent, 4 is very good, 3 is good, etc...

I know that the higher the scores, the more allocation slots that particular dealership gets. Also, the higher the score, the more the dealership has to pay their SAs. To the dealership franchisee, it's almost a lose/lose situation.

It is crazy, but BMWNA is to blame here, not the poor schmuck who thought they were doing you a great service by giving you Excellent and Very Good scores. It is obvious that the original poster was not drilled as to the importance of the 5 score.

Originally Posted by Ghunger

It's been discussed ad nauseam (sp?) on the other thread but the 5=pass, 1,2,3,4=fail system they use is rediculous. That's how I'm going to look at though. A 5 excellent, 4 good, 3 average, 2 poor, 1 unacceptable, system would make sense but I guess we just have to play their game.

I get what you're saying but how your average consumer is supposed to know that.BMW NA ought to be ashamed of this practice of putting their customers through this kind of treatment.Regarding this,them BMW NA numb nuts act like they own the world,they are not being fair to their dealers nor to their customers.
Their cars are good,but I wouldn't exactly call em excellent,almost everyone here had at least a problem with their cars/ dealers.It's bad for BMW NA to put BMWexecutive in that position.


Personally I just want to buy a $ 40k car without the fucking drama,excuse my french and it's BMW NA job to make sure it's a pleasant transaction and shouldn't create conditions that'd make it otherwise.
I gave my CA all fives then gave my SA some 5's,4's,3's,2's and 1's because I'm giving the God damn report card.Thanks God,nobody from the dealership has called me to question my grading.:mad:

Originally Posted by bmwexecutive

UPDATE

Here was the Sales Managers response:

************************************************** *******
Anything less than a "5" is considered by BMW to be a failing grade. And when you name people by name (me and NAME) and say they "didn't know" (NAME) or had "mood swings" and were bordering on "rude" (me) then that is also a personal mark against NAME and me on our internal BMW reports.

I have no idea why you would say these things about a dealer that jumped through hoops to meet a lowball price. We dealt with dozens of questions, emails, and phone calls. We worked as hard as we could to satisfy you even though the deal was a very thin one, profit-wise.

And your thanks for all we did was to cream us when it came to the follow-upcall from BMW.

We're done here.
************************************************** *******

My response to that:

First of all the rating chart was explained to me as 1 being the worst and 5 being the best. Not 1,2,3 and 4 means fail and 5 means pass. If that were the case why aren't the questions done in such a manner as "Yes" it was satisfactory or "No" it was not? Regardless, my responses were true to what I believe and the mere fact that you're now exibiting a sour grabes attitude after the BMW evaluation is something that I would suggest you sincerely look at as it is indicative as to why I gave the ratings I did and speaks for itself.

It's unfortunate but it looks as though we won't be dealing with each other again.
************************************************** *******

Whatever. Time to start looking for a new dealership to buy my M3 Sedan from in 16 months.

Ask the sales manager to quit being an idiot.

[Lost Rider]

Slighty off topic, but hey I need to vent this anyway.This seems like as good a place an any.
So the other day I took my BMW Motorcycle in for it's first service at 600 miles. I had a friend drive me up in my car, and drop me off in front of the service department.
The service manager saw my car and as I'm walking up he said, "why would you buy a wagon?"
I said "what'?
He then repeated, with I slightly more sarcastic tone, " why did you b uy that wagon.?"
By this time we were at the desk, and proceeded to tell him, " well I like the the extxa room, styling, handling, ect.......I also said "I love how exclusive it, there's more ferrari's in the area than a loaded SportWagon with a manual trans", My car is pretty rare"
He then said, " I could get one tomorrow if I wanted"
I said , " I doubt that, I had to order it, because no dealer in the US is going to order a Wagon in my configuation to put on their lot."
He said, " not that I like your wagon, but I could still get one tomorrow, you'd be surprised what BMW NA will do for its employee's"

I couldn't believe the service manager was sitting there behind his counter first, giving me attitude as to why a like my wagon, then arguing with me about how it's not exclusive and HE could get one anytime because he worked for BMW. His attitude the whole time was bad.
I couldn't believe how insulted I felt while leaving and quite some time after. Maybe I'm sensetive, but............
I will never take my bike back there to be worked on, and unlike the cars none of the service is not included with the bike.

The moral of the story, and back on topic, kind of, is that I hope BMWNA calls me for the survey. It will be all 1's

[tl_boy]

this thread is still alive? why do you guys care what the SA thinks? I think is SA is being an unreasonable a55, and personally wouldn't give this a second thought.

OP: don't worry man, there are other dealers, screw this guy. Get over it. If you really need some sort of 'closure' on this, forward a copy of this guys correspondence to BMW N.A., and see what they have to think about it.

I got a little silver seal on my Acura papers whenever i'd go for service. it also said, if you rate anything less than 5 out of 5 please call. But guess what, I didn't need to call, becuase my Acura service guy was truly good. If the rating system is so important to these guys, they better start working toward achieving 5 out of 5's and not just expecting it.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by bmwexecutive

Whatever. Time to start looking for a new dealership to buy my M3 Sedan from in 16 months.

Glad you think this is funny and can laugh. I´m sure you will think it funny next time you go to the dealership to get service.

If you go to another dealership for service, I hope you are not counting on a loaner car. 90% of all dealerships only provide these to their own customers.

What you seem to fail to comprehend is that it takes two parties to make a relationship work - and you are bound into a relationship with BMW (and to some extent your selling dealer) for as long as you have your car.

If something were to go really wrong with the car (such as if the entire car were to need replacing, and yes that happens very infrequently), BMW would require you to work with the selling dealer. I´m sure they would welcome you warmly and support your case.

Originally Posted by JSpira

Precisely, and the OP - as someone who has been posting here for more than 10 minutes - should have known the game and played along intelligently.

I usually enjoy your postings but you really disappointed me on this one.
You must be in bed with BMW AG.Are some people here not using common or what,I mean if bmwexecutive felt like the SA deserved a 4 so be it,their shouldn't be any kind of retaliations.
If 4 out of 5 is bad in Germany it's not in the states.You buy a $ 40k car and gave your SA some 4's and 5's,then get lectured for not knowing out to play the game and that you're a bad person or a liar for not giving the dealer all 5's .
What kind of people think this is okay? Most of BMW buyers aren't on E90post learning the do's and dont's of grading your SA.

I really believe one has to be crazy to vilify someone for giving a sales guy a 4 instead of a 5.Besides it's unethical to demand your customer to give you a 5 instead of a 4,no matter how good the service was.

We run a very succesful trucking company,there is a saying.
If you don't take good care of your customers someone else will.