[Brett]

Originally Posted by Tine

He claims he got E92 order list from our local BMW unit saying (in our market) 335Ci will not have a variable twin turbo, but a DI: a N53 3.0L engine with HPI direct injection with 225kW (306HP). N54 VTT will come later with 335si. Also a N53 2.5L engine with DI will debute in 325Ci.

Hmm... I wonder...

If maybe there is more fact than fiction to the rumored 328 now. Perhaps, in attempt to "cover their ass" they are replacing the 325->328, and the 330->335. With little, or no, premium?

I mean it can be done, it happened on the 323 and 328. And before you guys give me all that crap about how it was "2 years" recall that the model is technically 2 years old (in Germany). Furthermore, its not unpresident (Lexus bumped the ES250->ES300 after just one year).

Then they could have the 335SI with a slight more bump in HP and sport kit (which is already clear by the dual exhaust) and keep it in a nice price bracket between the 330 and the new M3.

I do find it odd that no announcement has been made about the coupe yet, although the car is clearly done and ready for production. Perhaps, they want to hold back the slam to prevent the competitors from one uping them in NY or Geneva.

Seems like it would work to me, any thoughts?

-Brett

[Brett]

Originally Posted by RichReg

I'll bet the 'turbo' version we've been hearing about is simply the 330D w/D.I.(335D)

I thought the D was for Diseal? I know we don't have them in the states, but I could have sworn they sell them (and have for a while) on the other side of the pond.

-Brett

[younghov85]

I doubt that BMW will need a turbo just to match a Toyota motor, im not downing Toyota at all but they created a 3.2L with 333hp like 5 years ago with the beginning of the last generation M3

[E90-4life]

My brain is bleeding from all these silly, speculative "335 this and that" threads...

[DerekS]

My Vancouver BMW dealer contact has been unofficially told by BMW Canada that the only E90/91/92/93 engine changes coming during the next 12-15 months will be limited to coupes and convertibles; he says the new engines (328/335) will first appear late this year in coupes (beginning with Sept. production), followed by convertibles in the spring of 2007. Sedan engine changes will not appear until sometime later in 2007.
The Canadian market already has 323 sedans; this engine variant, currently selling well, is expected to continue through MY 2007.
There has been no confirmation so far as to the actual HP and displacement for the 335 coupe/cabrio coming to NA.

[stressdoc]

I would not doubt that the coupes will get the engine changes first. It will piss me off big time, because I have no interest in an E92. Got to be an E90 or E91.

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by DerekS

My Vancouver BMW dealer contact has been unofficially told by BMW Canada that the only E90/91/92/93 engine changes coming during the next 12-15 months will be limited to coupes and convertibles; he says the new engines (328/335) will first appear late this year in coupes (beginning with Sept. production), followed by convertibles in the spring of 2007. Sedan engine changes will not appear until sometime later in 2007.
The Canadian market already has 323 sedans; this engine variant, currently selling well, is expected to continue through MY 2007.
There has been no confirmation so far as to the actual HP and displacement for the 335 coupe/cabrio coming to NA.

It could be that Europe gets the Coupes with the new engines in the Spring and the Sedans in the Fall. The U.S could then follow along with the usual lag.....Coupes in the Fall and then the Sedans sometime in early '07.

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by Brett

I thought the D was for Diseal? I know we don't have them in the states, but I could have sworn they sell them (and have for a while) on the other side of the pond.

-Brett

maximinimaus, who posted that model lineup, is in Germany, so yes, the 330D & 335D are diesel motors with turbos.
No, we don't have them here.... yet.

[SRT]

I havn't commented on the whole 335i thing-a-majig,
I think some folks here need to stop living in denial of the fact that there is a very strong chance that the rumours are true. It does upset 330i owners, rightly so, but how do you think 745i/Li owners feel? (dropped for 750i/Li, topped by 760i/Li) How do 545i owners feel?(dropped for 550i) How do 645ci owners feel? (dropped for 650ci)...

They have all suffered the price of progress but that is all there is to it. For the exception of performance, there is nothing else superior about the new desgnations. 745i/Li, 545i and 330i are still fantastic cars in every other way, and I personally would never turn away from one just because a newer designation was en-route with a few extra HP/NM Torque . Still the same reliability, still the same comfort and still the same prestige...

I understand it's not a very 'petrol-heady' approach, but it's just my 2 pence

[Tine]

Here is the lates info - from another dealer (Europe):

E92/3, engines:

323i = N52
325i = N52 & N53
330i = N52 & N53
330d = M57
335d = M57
335i = N54 (225kW = 306HP)
335si = N54 (245kW = 333HP) - with ZSG gearbox!!!

xDrive will be also available on specific models - a bit later.

No more "Ci" & "Cd" label, but only "i", "d" & "si" instead.

It is possible some markets (e.g. US) get different designations: e.g. 328i instead of 330i, 323i instead of 325i etc.

N53 engines only for Europe, not US. He said no power change over N52.

So I guess US will still have N52 engines & later this year also a N51.

PR coming mid February.

Legend:
N52 - current I6 2.5L & 30L engines
N53 - 2.5L & 3.0L engines with DI
N54 - 3.0L variable twin turbo
N51 - 2.5L SULEV II engine


I'll try to find more. I do not trust dealer info, so ...

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Tine

335si = N54 (245kW = 333HP) - with ZSG gearbox!!!

Where do I Sign?

[noflash]

No 'C's for coupes?

[lux.sh]

I also heard 335i will be equipped with ZSG gearbox.

Isn't this Zentral-Syncron-Getriebe or whatever gearbox superior to SMG III?
Why would they put better tranny on regular 3 series? I thought they would keep the better goodies for M line-ups. or are they going to receive SMG IV..

[stressdoc]

Depends how you define 'better'. ZSG will be a wonderful all around transmission, with smooth shifts in everyday traffic. The SMG may still be superior in terms of higher performance demands.

My concern is that we will see none of this until 2007 in the NA markets.

[DTM]

Originally Posted by younghov85

I doubt that BMW will need a turbo just to match a Toyota motor, im not downing Toyota at all but they created a 3.2L with 333hp like 5 years ago with the beginning of the last generation M3

I think the real question pertains to whether they can create an inexpensive 310+ HP engine which is suitable for everyday driving conditions. The M3 engine was loud, causing it to be unsuitable for daily driving. It was also rather expensive to manufacture. Using a turbo/super-charged engine would cut costs.

However, I too think that turbo/supercharging is not a good idea. People buy BMW's for their nice, smooth, refined engines in everyday driving. I might go for a 330 if I learn that the 335 is turbocharged.

[Tine]

Originally Posted by DTM

However, I too think that turbo/supercharging is not a good idea. People buy BMW's for their nice, smooth, refined engines in everyday driving. I might go for a 330 if I learn that the 335 is turbocharged.

That's was a concern at BMW NA since BMW image does not include turbo engines - but BMW turbos are not standard turbos: they are very advanced - with Variable Twin turbo technology, completely eliminating turbo lag. The engine is as refined as current 3.0L I6 in 330i. BMW could go turbo in the past, but they didn't go - now when they've invented VTT they can produce turbo engines as refined as NA ones. So they go turbo: performance without penalty.

When you'll test drive 335i all your doubts will disappear.

[noflash]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Depends how you define 'better'. ZSG will be a wonderful all around transmission, with smooth shifts in everyday traffic. The SMG may still be superior in terms of higher performance demands.

My concern is that we will see none of this until 2007 in the NA markets.

How does ZSG differ from SMG?
Answer to my own question:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...&highlight=zsg

I thought I read in Bimmer or Roundel that BMW wouldn't go that route b/c they suffered from NIH (Not-Invented-Here).

[voltron1011]

I don't know why BMW just can't produce a 3.5L engine.... Makes more sense than forced induction. By adding turbochargers, you are affecting longterm reliability of the motor. The only motors that need turbos are diesels.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by Tine

E92/3, engines:

323i = N52
325i = N52 & N53
330i = N52 & N53
330d = M57
335d = M57
335i = N54 (225kW = 306HP)
335si = N54 (245kW = 333HP) - with ZSG gearbox!!!

No more "Ci" & "Cd" label, but only "i", "d" & "si" instead.

Which ones are coupes in this list? Only the one 335si?

Originally Posted by Tine

So I guess US will still have N52 engines & later this year also a N51.

Legend:
N52 - current I6 2.5L & 30L engines
N53 - 2.5L & 3.0L engines with DI
N54 - 3.0L variable twin turbo
N51 - 2.5L SULEV II engine

N52 3.0L is the current engine in both 325 & 330 in US... so no changes there. What is the N51 engine? Would it have more power than the N52 3.0L (current US 3 series spec)? Since its named N51 it sounds like it would be an older/lesser engine than the current N52.

[Tine]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

I don't know why BMW just can't produce a 3.5L engine.... Makes more sense than forced induction. By adding turbochargers, you are affecting longterm reliability of the motor. The only motors that need turbos are diesels.

Modern turbo engines can offer huge amount of torque & power from smaller displacement - contributing to lower fuel consumption.

Today turbo does not necessary mean higher fuel consumption.

Turbo engine with smaller displacement can be more fuel effecient than NA engines with larger displacement, yet same power & torque output.

[stressdoc]

So Tine, the US gets the Canadian 323 N51. But any info on when we get the N54, and which models (E90/1/2) it will be available with? The rumored 323/328/335 is making less sense, why change the current 330 N52 back to a 328? Just to make more label distance with the 335?

[Tine]

Originally Posted by 3aficionado

Which ones are coupes in this list? Only the one 335si?

All of them! According to the dealer's info (remeber I also saw on that blury pic from invitation promo kit like the C was missing on a 335i coupe) coupe will be labeled as e.g. 335i, not 335Ci. Just like a sedan or touring.

N52 3.0L is the current engine in both 325 & 330 in US... so no changes there. What is the N51 engine? Would it have more power than the N52 3.0L (current US 3 series spec)? Since its named N51 it sounds like it would be an older/lesser engine than the current N52.

N51 engine is 2.5L I6 NA engine with Valvetronic - just like E52, but meets SULEV II emission standard, while N52 meets ULEV II. Power output is unknown to me, but I guess it would be the same as 2.5L N52 (215HP). N51 do not mean engine is older or less powerful. Production starts in September.