F80 M3 or M4 Gran Coupe?

[Gearhead999s]

I do not see a M4 Gran Coupe at all.A M3 will fill that void quite well.

[XtoM]

Originally Posted by Jockey

I think he was being facetious.

The thing is, the M5 and the M6 are aimed at two separate demographics. That's why a M6 GC can be pulled off. The M3 and M4 are aimed at the same demographic, the difference being who just really who wants 4-doors or 2.

Yes, I was just arseing about, the M4 GC would be a superb looking car, but I'm sticking with the coupe.

[gee-m-w]

I want one more than the sedan.

[Rookie84]

I never understand 4-door coupes. They all have weird stretched look with 2 more doors added to a 2-door coupe. I think I'll stick with F82.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Jockey

This is an honest question because I just don't see the pull of a GC. What do you get from an M4 GC that you wouldn't get from the M3?

Style

I'm sure they'll make an M version, they've added an M to just about every other model, no reason to believe they stop now, and they can charge a nice premium, I'll go for one for sure

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by paddy335

As long as customers come, they will diversify.

BMW will take models out of the line if they become unprofitable. It's a business remember.

of course they'll do whatever is most profitable for them. I don't dismiss their fiduciary duties to their shareholders for a second, nor would I demonize them for it.

however, I would submit that having too broad of a product line can come at the expense of lowering the quality (in all respects) of all products. sure, the M4 Gran Coupe might steal customers from some other brands, but even still I would bet that it would be cannibalizing M3 sales more than anything.

they're in the business of making money, not cars. everyone gets that. however, that's not to say that a reputation can't be ruined through selling out whereby short-term profits are made at the sacrifice of long-term profits. take a look at how they've whored out the M badge with all the M sport packages available on damn near all models. it totally dilutes the value of what the franchise stands for (or formerly stood for, some would argue).

[aajami]

Again, you all realize that this car will most likely be a hatchback to compete with the A5 Sportback, and NOT a smaller version of the 6-series Gran Coupe, right?

[cjwb1984]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

You may get your wish. I seen an M4 Gran Coupe styling model on Friday.

Common, darn it. The M4 GranCoupe is so tempting.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by aajami

Again, you all realize that this car will most likely be a hatchback to compete with the A5 Sportback, and NOT a smaller version of the 6-series Gran Coupe, right?

S5 sportback isn't bad looking at all.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by turbolag

S5 sportback isn't bad looking at all.

That's certainly an objective call. And while it's premature to be making any kind of judgment call on a car that's still covered in camo, I have no desire to own a 5-door hatchback like the Sportback or the A7. I would have loved a baby 6GC, though.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I've been Mr. Practical my whole life. Now I want something a little sexier. It compensates for middle age - and I'm willing to pay a premium for it. Yeah, I'm selling out to fashion.

I think you should look at 3 series GT. That's pretty much what a 4 GC would look like.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by aajami

That's certainly an objective call. And while it's premature to be making any kind of judgment call on a car that's still covered in camo, I have no desire to own a 5-door hatchback like the Sportback or the A7. I would have loved a baby 6GC, though.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the 2 GC in this regard. That will help clarify whether the 4 GC is an anomaly or if BMW is rethinking the GT/GC strategy. I notice already that SCOTT is referring to the FWD UKL-based "GT" as a 2 Series. So more strangeness appears to be afoot.

Personally I would have liked to see them go with a four door coupe and shooting brake pairing like Mercedes has with the CLS. But then I suppose BMW is still trying to crack the US market with these five door offerings. Although, I can't help but wonder about their plans; Audi hasn't attempted to bring us the A5 Sportback and there must be a reason for that (to be fair the A7 is here, however). It seems to me that perhaps Americans are just never going to be keen on car-based five door luxury vehicles in sizes above the compact class whether you give then a wagon based on a sedan, a fastback based on a sedan, a wagon based on a four door coupe, or a fastback based on a four door coupe. Even fastbacks based on CUVs are not lighting up the sales charts.

In any case it's a shame the 4 GC didn't stay a "C". I think for next generation we'll surely see the 3 and 4 diverge further in exterior and interior styling so as to provide a slot for a true 4 GC. Of course, if the five door form factor somehow turns out to be a hit here, they may have to continue on in that direction.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It will be interesting to see what they do with the 2 GC in this regard. That will help clarify whether the 4 GC is an anomaly or if BMW is rethinking the GT/GC strategy. I notice already that SCOTT is referring to the FWD UKL-based "GT" as a 2 Series. So more strangeness appears to be afoot.

Personally I would have liked to see them go with a four door coupe and shooting brake pairing like Mercedes has with the CLS. But then I suppose BMW is still trying to crack the US market with these five door offerings. Although, I can't help but wonder about their plans; Audi hasn't attempted to bring us the A5 Sportback and there must be a reason for that (to be fair the A7 is here, however). It seems to me that perhaps Americans are just never going to be keen on car-based five door luxury vehicles in sizes above the compact class whether you give then a wagon based on a sedan, a fastback based on a sedan, a wagon based on a four door coupe, or a fastback based on a four door coupe. Even fastbacks based on CUVs are not lighting up the sales charts.

In any case it's a shame the 4 GC didn't stay a "C". I think for next generation we'll surely see the 3 and 4 diverge further in exterior and interior styling so as to provide a slot for a true 4 GC. Of course, if the five door form factor somehow turns out to be a hit here, they may have to continue on in that direction.

Well said as always, mkoesel. I agree that as the 3 and 4 series continue to diverge in future generations, that will give BMW opportunity to make the 4GC look more like a sporty sedan without impeding on the 3-series' territory. I just think that with this first-generation 4-series, they were worried about not creating too much separation between the two models for fear of alienating existing buyers of the 3-series coupe. Problem being that they squeezed out any potential space for a true 4GC, and had to look to the Sportback segment for a slot that makes sense for this model.

Now that the 4-series brand has been established, I'd look for it to carve out its own design characteristics in the future, and have as many unique styling features as the 6 does to the 5. At that point, I would expect the second generation 4-series GC to actually look like a smaller 6-series GC. Unless, of course, the F36 turns out to be a wild success.

As for why Americans don't seem to be clamoring for 5-door models, I'm not sure. Might still be residual perception of the wagon being a soulless family car (think the Griswolds in National Lampoon's Vacation) without the space benefits of a minivan or the ego boost of an SUV. Hard to look at an RS4 Avant, RS6 Avant, or a Panamera Sport Turismo and see anything but an ass-kicker, though. Guess I shouldn't throw stones -- I'd never buy a 5-door either.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by Jockey

This is an honest question because I just don't see the pull of a GC. What do you get from an M4 GC that you wouldn't get from the M3?

A 5th door via the hatchback.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by aajami

A 5th door via the hatchback.

I know that's the door I prefer to use

[m630]

Originally Posted by aajami

Again, you all realize that this car will most likely be a hatchback to compete with the A5 Sportback, and NOT a smaller version of the 6-series Gran Coupe, right?

I'm not sure this is at all true, so until we see real pix, the speculation is just that. The fact is they have the precedent for a successful business case in a 4door coupe like sedan, like my 6er GC that they can market as a premium model and pricepoint. They already have the long wheelbase from the 3er li platform, and they have the 4er design already, so I'm doubting they are going to radically change the form to add a hatchback. I think with the beauty of the MB CLA, which is very sexy to say the least, BMW will respond and again set the standard for the class. Even if it does become a hatchback, again you are missing the mark on the comparison. If anything, it may compete against a smaller Panamera, which is rumored to be an upcoming model,but they are not building a 4er GC to compete with Audi.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by m630

I'm not sure this is at all true, so until we see real pix, the speculation is just that. The fact is they have the precedent for a successful business case in a 4door coupe like sedan, like my 6er GC that they can market as a premium model and pricepoint. They already have the long wheelbase from the 3er li platform, and they have the 4er design already, so I'm doubting they are going to radically change the form to add a hatchback. I think with the beauty of the MB CLA, which is very sexy to say the least, BMW will respond and again set the standard for the class. Even if it does become a hatchback, again you are missing the mark on the comparison. If anything, it may compete against a smaller Panamera, which is rumored to be an upcoming model,but they are not building a 4er GC to compete with Audi.

I agree with you that this is all speculation until we see uncovered pictures, but I'm afraid I disagree on your other points. Specifically:

1. Regarding the CLA, BMW plans to compete with the 2-series Gran Coupe, not the 4-series Gran Coupe, as the latter is a larger car and appeals to a higher market segment.
2. The 4-series is a direct competitor to the A5. Certainly not to anything Porsche has on the market right now.

Again, look at the latest spy pic and compare it to the A5 Sportback. It's hard not to see the resemblance in the appearance of their respective rear ends.





I want to be proven wrong, because I would covet a 6-series Gran Coupe in the size of a 4-series. But I don't think that's what we're going to get. I think BMW painted themselves into a corner by making the 3- and 4-series so similar, and are looking to differentiate a forthcoming 4-series sedan from their existing 3-series sedan by making the former a sporty hatchback.

But, as you implied, time will tell.

[m630]

Originally Posted by aajami

I agree with you that this is all speculation until we see uncovered pictures, but I'm afraid I disagree on your other points. Specifically:

1. Regarding the CLA, BMW plans to compete with the 2-series Gran Coupe, not the 4-series Gran Coupe, as the latter is a larger car and appeals to a higher market segment.
2. The 4-series is a direct competitor to the A5. Certainly not to anything Porsche has on the market right now.

Again, look at the latest spy pic and compare it to the A5 Sportback. It's hard not to see the resemblance in the appearance of their respective
I want to be proven wrong, because I would covet a 6-series Gran Coupe in the size of a 4-series. But I don't think that's what we're going to get. I think BMW painted themselves into a corner by making the 3- and 4-series so similar, and are looking to differentiate a forthcoming 4-series sedan from their existing 3-series sedan by making the former a sporty hatchback.

But, as you implied, time will tell.

That sport back is fugly, I don't see the resemblance other than the fact the roof is sloping like a coupe in both cars, I expect the 4er to be nice looking car. I just don't think they would need to go with the hatchback since they already offer the 3er gt, are there any full rear on views that can point this out better? Keep in mind, this will be the top model so to speak, and will be pricey, so it has to rely on design that is beautiful to command the premium price since you have to sacrifice space in the rear with the roofline. I have high hopes that it will turn out nice, but we'll need to wait a bit to see how it turns out

[aus]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I've been Mr. Practical my whole life. Now I want something a little sexier. It compensates for middle age - and I'm willing to pay a premium for it. Yeah, I'm selling out to fashion.

I agree completely. I also need the back seats for my kids.
I've sat in an M5 and Driven a 6 GC (non //M), and it feels like another level of car inside. The 6GC-M also tests better than the M5 in all the mags and they all comment how it drives better too.

.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by m630

That sport back is fugly, I don't see the resemblance other than the fact the roof is sloping like a coupe in both cars, I expect the 4er to be nice looking car. I just don't think they would need to go with the hatchback since they already offer the 3er gt, are there any full rear on views that can point this out better? Keep in mind, this will be the top model so to speak, and will be pricey, so it has to rely on design that is beautiful to command the premium price since you have to sacrifice space in the rear with the roofline. I have high hopes that it will turn out nice, but we'll need to wait a bit to see how it turns out

You only see the resemblance between the two cars in the one characteristic that defines a sportback? I'm just teasing. Like you said, it's hard to make a call now that the test car is still covered in camo. That said, take a look at this spy shot and follow the hood line starting below the license plate and tracing it all the way up as far as you can -- it goes all the way up the rear windshield, and only cuts across where the roof meets the glass. Now, this could very well just be the panel line that separates the sheet metal from the glass, but it's pretty damning:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-BERl6ffJSP4/Um...5B6%25255D.jpg

[m630]

I think this may finally put your mind at ease, look at the pix below of the M3 and B3 rear end shots. Follow the trunk lines, then look at the GC pix you linked above. The trunk lines and design are exactly the same. I would say I'm 100% sure now that it will have a traditional trunk design n no hatchback. It's gonna be sweet



http://f80.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfor...%20-B3%204.jpg

[1MOREMOD]

Are they gonna make one? Seems like a poor idea to me but I could see it happening.