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[bmw_guy_2020]

What is meant by a "square" wheel setup?

I've seen references to a "square" wheel setup on this forum but I'm not sure what this means.

Does this refer to using the same wheel size for all 4 wheels?

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

What is meant by a "square" wheel setup?

I've seen references to a "square" wheel setup on this forum but I'm not sure what this means.

Does this refer to using the same wheel size for all 4 wheels?

Correct.

A square setup is the same wheel and tire size all around. Aggressive/race fitments will generally involve running a tire size on the front of the car that is as wide or wider than what originally came on the rear of the vehicle. In fitments where fender clearance up front is limited, a common ground is picked between the front and rear sizes (235/40/17 picked to be used all around on a car that originally came with 225/40/17's front and 245/40/17 rear).

It's usually the same offset wheel as well, thus allowing for easy rotating of tires. A spacer may be used in some cases to correct for offset (such as on the E46 M3, where an 18x9.5" et35 square setup is used, along with a pair of 10-12mm rear spacers).

The other option is a staggered setup, which is common to almost all BMW's including the E9X M3. This is any setup where the rear wheel and tire is wider than the front wheel and tire.

Square setups are commonly preferred for track use due to the increase in front grip they provide. Square setups bring the car back to a more neutral settings vs, the understeer caused by staggered setups. In heavier, high horsepower cars, a square setup can cause the feeling of oversteer. Some owners comment that square setups on the E9X M3 chassis feel like they oversteer. Driving at the limits of a car that oversteers easily/easier is generally more difficult, but the improved front grip is worth more to advanced drivers then the extra skill/attention required to control oversteer.

[ooowowizstev]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

What is meant by a "square" wheel setup?

I've seen references to a "square" wheel setup on this forum but I'm not sure what this means.

Does this refer to using the same wheel size for all 4 wheels?

No.

[JSH3]

[PKL]

^lol

[SIN3]

that pic is win.

[bmw_guy_2020]

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

[JJM335]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

This would be understeer. Oversteer is when the back end tries to come around.Most modern cars are setup to favor understeer as it is deemed safer and easier to control.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

What.

I highly doubt that you were driving an X6 aggressive enough to induce either understeer (pull) or oversteer (push), especially not during a test drive. What you're describing is the general vague steering response that a lot of BMW models have these days, and/or the truck's large turning radius.

[Crazy Bimmer]

So annoying yet entertaining.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

I do, and I like it a lot...

[bmw_guy_2020]

Based on my test drive of the M3 I'm happy with the car just the way it is.

If people like a square setup so much and a square setup prolongs the life of the tires by allowing tire rotations then why have most German car makers been using a staggered setup on their cars for the last 10 years?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

Based on my test drive of the M3 I'm happy with the car just the way it is.

If people like a square setup so much and a square setup prolongs the life of the tires by allowing tire rotations then why have most German car makers been using a staggered setup on their cars for the last 10 years?

Because the average driver is not comfortable with and does not know how to react to oversteer. Manufacturers view understeer as safer when compared to oversteer which can result in your car spinning. When you experience understeer you continue to face the intended direction.

At the speeds that are seen on public roads we do not come close to reaching the limits of this car. On a test drive or typical driving conditions most people (myself included) would have a hard time determining the difference between a staggered and square set up. The track is a different story.

[Dustin@AEp]

Originally Posted by SIN3

that pic is win.

steven! nice to see you on m3 post haha

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

Understeer is when the front of the car hits the wall first,
Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the wall first.

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you go through the other side.

[Auto]

nice pics, hahaha!

[itf joegun]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Understeer is when the front of the car hits the wall first,
Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the wall first.

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you go through the other side.

Perfect description! Easy to keep in mind, thank you!

[bmw_guy_2020]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Understeer is when the front of the car hits the wall first,
Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the wall first.

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you go through the other side.

So are you saying that your car is much more likely to "fishtail" if it's prone towards oversteer?

[dnvrdrvr]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So are you saying that your car is much more likely to "fishtail" if it's prone towards oversteer?

Yep.

Think about the words themselves. Oversteer is when the car over steers into the turn you're making. It turns farther than you intend it to. The back end swings out. Etc

Understeer is when the car doesn't go as far into the turn as you want it to go. I've also heard this described as pushing or plowing. It is indeed "safer" in that you won't end up sitting stopped facing oncoming traffic.

Either way you can end up off track though.

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Understeer is when the front of the car hits the wall first,
Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the wall first.

Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you go through the other side.

By far, one of my favorite quotes...

[Kenny@VS]

Originally Posted by bmw_guy_2020

So how many of you use a square setup on your m3?

Oversteer is where the steering feels loose and it feels like you need to turn the steering wheel quite a bit to make the car turn. This is kind of like an old Buick right?

I test drove an X6 a few months ago the default steering felt like this. This was oversteer right? I don't think the one I test drove had the "Adaptive Steering" option.

Oversteer and understeer have nothing to do with wheel size; unless your doing something completely out of the box. The cars suspension and alignment specs determine that. I would prefer the square set up. I am always at the track. Its easer to rotate and if your in a rush you don't have to look to see if you have the right size on. IMO I don't notice a hinder on performance. I have been racing wheel to wheel in the SCCA for almost 6 years, I have a lot of experience with different setups and testing. If you need any more clarity on different questions, don't hesitate to ask.