From M3 to GT3 - Downsides and Upsides

[skim]

You will spend more money on a GT3, and trust me the novelty wears off in three months, then it's not worth the extra money!!

well it's not just the gt3 but the case for all cars pretty much.
when i wanted the m3, i was dying to have it and was looking and reading forums all the time. i got it, tracked it and DD it.. it's an amazing ride really.. but it doesn't feel like the first month after i got it. i went down and starred at the car every day for a few times after i got home. now sometimes i even park it outside and park the z4m in the garage.
i do think it's worth the extra money.. sure there are many "better" cars than the gt3, but there are VERY few that can match the driving feel of it and the intoxicating engine sound in the cabin

[RandyB]

The only downside is I don't have one yet.

[Stunnerable]

Downside? You're kidding right?

My dream is the RS and thats rougher than the standard. You may have purchased the wrong car my friend. Perhaps the Turbo would have been the wiser choice.

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by Montoya

I have the official sales brochure with the HP and torque curves- it looks eerily similar to the E46 (HP curve, not ultimate power- torque is different). Thus, my question for the 'feel' of the motor...

Yes. It is also eerily similar to the RS4. This is one of the reason I sold the E92. The curve is so flat, which is perfect for track attack, but the flatness of the curve, makes the car feel slow on the street. You only get that burst acceleration feel on the E92 between 3500 to 4500 RPM. After that, it's just building speed and HP at such a linear rate, you lose the effect of speed.

Again, not saying the E92 is not fast. It just doesn't feel very fast most of the time.

I prefer the engine feel of the e46, gt3, RS4.

[Dartanium]

get GT3, it seems there is no downside, heard dynamic engine mounts is a must

[Montoya]

Guys thanks for all your posts- it's given me a lot to think about.


Still on the fence. No forced induction for me though. If anything it will be just a few mods to make it more unique and to perhaps rev the performance up in the mean time. But I have a feeling the GT3 beckons soon...

[boombastic]

more torque is always welcome. i could not agree more. on street, i prefer my brutal X5M.

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Yes. It is also eerily similar to the RS4. This is one of the reason I sold the E92. The curve is so flat, which is perfect for track attack, but the flatness of the curve, makes the car feel slow on the street. You only get that burst acceleration feel on the E92 between 3500 to 4500 RPM. After that, it's just building speed and HP at such a linear rate, you lose the effect of speed.

Again, not saying the E92 is not fast. It just doesn't feel very fast most of the time.

I prefer the engine feel of the e46, gt3, RS4.

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Yes. It is also eerily similar to the RS4. This is one of the reason I sold the E92. The curve is so flat, which is perfect for track attack, but the flatness of the curve, makes the car feel slow on the street. You only get that burst acceleration feel on the E92 between 3500 to 4500 RPM. After that, it's just building speed and HP at such a linear rate, you lose the effect of speed.

Again, not saying the E92 is not fast. It just doesn't feel very fast most of the time.

I prefer the engine feel of the e46, gt3, RS4.

So what's the new car? Have you decided yet?

[devo]

Get the .2 if you can. The differences are so vast, although typical Porsche revolutionary, that the .2 is like a completely new model not just a face-lift.

The suspension is dialed in beautifully with that sucked to the road feeling without feeling too harsh. Porsche did a marvelous job keeping the suspension very taut without the abrupt harshness over the sharp bumps. They added some components and experience from the GT2. So, the .2 actually feels more planted while offering a better daily drive in normal PASM mode.

The added torque is definately noticeable over the .1, then add the countless other advances, DE mounts, CL wheels, beautifully executed venting rather than drop in pieces, bigger, lighter brakes; again beautifully executed make the .2 the only choice for me. Even the flywheel has been lightened. It's still a dual mass but lighter nonetheless.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Montoya

Agreed that the GT3 is pretty near the top of the street legal sports cars.

The dilemma is how it is the rest of the time, those are disadvantages that Bob MG talks about.

I wish you had a little more seat time in the M3- At or near the limit it is really a very different car than just tooling around. The motor is not anything like the E46 in terms of power delivery. The E9X motor pulls all the way to redline where it produces peak power- and it feels that way. I just looked at the specs on the GT3 motor and it's peak is 7600 RPM, quite shy of redline. Now, the RS does peak higher at 7900 RPM.

I know that the GT3 dusts the M3 with a much lower lb/HP ratio, but the question is when you don't look at the tach, when do you shift when going all out- just based on feel? 7600 RPM or close to redline? For example, without looking in the E46 M3 I would consistently shift at our near the power peak of 7600 RPM, way below redline. On the E9X it is right around redline (or past!). It's just a different feel- not dissing the GT3, just curious on that 'feel' of the pulling power of the motor...

In a GT3 you would shift slightly above peak power so that the executed shift would occur at peak power. Or, have the ability to rev past peak power while in a corner without the need to up-shift, thus keeping the revs at peak power. There's not much playing around with a peak power/red-line relationship when they occur at nearly the same rpm. You'll bounce off the rev limiter, lose power and may very well be in the wrong gear exiting a corner.

The rev limiter is there to protect against unwanted up-shift over-revs but it's still not good for the engine to repeatedly shift past red-line. Porsche categorizes these revs in numeric order of revolutions past red-line. Any smart buyer wants to know how many and how bad; defined by a number.

The RS reaks higher to gain the 15 hp over the .1. More revs more power when tuned correctly. The RS does not gain any torque and achieves its peak torque about 500 rpms higher than a GT3.

I am not devaluing BMG's statements, but any car or object CAN get mundane after the initial purchase wears off. It's the cars that provide a lasting enjoyment over time that define greatness. For me, I'm confident that car will be the GT3. Yeah, my turbo was very fast but became a bit too boring, a GTR would also be very fast but I also think it would suffer the same fate. You can't listen to what others say about what cars can be DDs. A DD to me may be very different to your needs, etc... So, it does drive me nuts when people say this car can or that car can't be a daily driver. You'll decide what works for you, but don't short change a car like a GT3 for the wrong reasons.

Good luck with your choice.

[JC919]

My next car is without a doubt!! Okay, my next sports car as I need to get a truck/tahoe for work. I hope to be able to pick up a used 7.1 GT3 in the next few years as a track/backroad rally tool, with my current M3 as a DD. But if I cannot afford both, the M3 is getting kicked to the curb. GT3 is god!!!

Those worried about maintenance costs need to factor in that the 7.1 GT3 engine came from the block used in the 911 GT1. That engine is f***ing bullet proof. Even the current ones are tough as all GT3 engines are based of racing cars first, unlike the M3. Of course, you don't get the free maintenance warranty as with the M3, but I'm about to my wits end trying to get the stealerships to performs the work I ask for. That and I'm rapidly apporaching 50k miles

[skierman64]

I didn't read any mention of any track time for the OP. If you're not going to track it a few times a season, why buy the GT3. The suspension is so stiff, you'll need a kidney belt to drive it on the street as a daily driver. The GT3 looks great and it is great on the track but not as a daily driver.

If you want to spend the money, get the Dinan stroker motor. 500+ horsepower should fill your desires yet you'll still have the practicality of the M3.

[devo]

Originally Posted by skierman64

I didn't read any mention of any track time for the OP. If you're not going to track it a few times a season, why buy the GT3. The suspension is so stiff, you'll need a kidney belt to drive it on the street as a daily driver. The GT3 looks great and it is great on the track but not as a daily driver.

If you want to spend the money, get the Dinan stroker motor. 500+ horsepower should fill your desires yet you'll still have the practicality of the M3.

As I said above, the suspension is not that harsh. Porsche dialed in the rebound and damping etc... The .2 is even better. The .2 in normal PASM mode is less stiff than my previous 2005 C2S in sport mode yet more planted for fun street use. Sport mode in the .2 Gt3 is hardly too stiff to me. It's all what one desires and considers too harsh for them.

A Dinan stroker sounds great but try getting that money back after a couple of years and use. One of our own members sold his Dinan E92 M3 with many more cool go fast items to get his current .2 GT3 and could not be happier.

[devo]

Originally Posted by JC919

My next car is without a doubt!! Okay, my next sports car as I need to get a truck/tahoe for work. I hope to be able to pick up a used 7.1 GT3 in the next few years as a track/backroad rally tool, with my current M3 as a DD. But if I cannot afford both, the M3 is getting kicked to the curb. GT3 is god!!!

Those worried about maintenance costs need to factor in that the 7.1 GT3 engine came from the block used in the 911 GT1. That engine is f***ing bullet proof. Even the current ones are tough as all GT3 engines are based of racing cars first, unlike the M3. Of course, you don't get the free maintenance warranty as with the M3, but I'm about to my wits end trying to get the stealerships to performs the work I ask for. That and I'm rapidly apporaching 50k miles

The .2 GT3/RS shares the same block and true dry sump oiling system. The difference(s) being the .2 more of displacement; an increase in the bore and other minor refinements. Otherwise it is the same bulletproof engine as the .1. The .2 turbo and Carreras have the new DI engine with an "integrated dry sump". The next GT3/RS will very likely follow suit.

[ASU]

Originally Posted by Montoya

Guys thanks for all your posts- it's given me a lot to think about.


Still on the fence. No forced induction for me though. If anything it will be just a few mods to make it more unique and to perhaps rev the performance up in the mean time. But I have a feeling the GT3 beckons soon...

I just went through that same thought process but living in Toronto pretty much makes the decision for you, the GTS would be a non-winter car. That was an issue for me at least as I really couldn't afford a GTS and a second car I wouldn't mind being seen in.

However, the decision IMO has a lot more to do with what emotionally you want. A sports car (P) or a Performance Coupe. Two very different beasts. I have always wanted both cars and felt that the end point would be a P car for me. However, I am also a golf nut and I need space for my clubs so they can be with me all the time should a game become available. I assume you are not a avid golfer or if so you only play at your home course.

As said before, it is really about want you want not want the performance is since we all know the GTS is a great car with no real downside outside of your daily normal living requirements.

All in all, keep the M3 if you can afford it and get the GTS. Best of both worlds.

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by Montoya

So what's the new car? Have you decided yet?

Just hanging on to my money at the moment. GT3 and GT-R are the only cars that tickles my fancy right now but the Porsche is a bit too pricey. I really want .2 and the GT-R I'm not sure I want to commit to DCT as I really think as fast as it is I will get bored.

So hanging on to see what the M1 will be like as that might be the perfect fit if they go back to build a drivers car and being what M used to be.

It's unfortunate because I think the E92 is one of the best looking cars from a emotional perspective. Better the a GT3. Oh well.

[GnokGnik]

Get a Porsche 997 Turbo...unless you track every other week or something. The GT3 is the best Porsche, it actually rides really well for what it is, but the Turbo is the flagship 911 though...I am drooling already.

[wuyichao]

WTF?lol

GT3 is built for track, if you are a track whore, dump your M3 and get the GT3!

on the other side, M3 is better for daily use and track usage combined.

If i had the money, i would get both, lol

[wuyichao]

Originally Posted by RandyB

The only downside is I don't have one yet.

lol, me either

[KonigsTiger]

Hmmm, Gt3 in stock form for sure. Non-stock may be a different story altogether.

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Just hanging on to my money at the moment. GT3 and GT-R are the only cars that tickles my fancy right now but the Porsche is a bit too pricey. I really want .2 and the GT-R I'm not sure I want to commit to DCT as I really think as fast as it is I will get bored.

So hanging on to see what the M1 will be like as that might be the perfect fit if they go back to build a drivers car and being what M used to be.

It's unfortunate because I think the E92 is one of the best looking cars from a emotional perspective. Better the a GT3. Oh well.

I really want the .2 GT3. I think in a year prices will be in "range"...

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by devo

As I said above, the suspension is not that harsh. Porsche dialed in the rebound and damping etc... The .2 is even better. The .2 in normal PASM mode is less stiff than my previous 2005 C2S in sport mode yet more planted for fun street use. Sport mode in the .2 Gt3 is hardly too stiff to me. It's all what one desires and considers too harsh for them.

A Dinan stroker sounds great but try getting that money back after a couple of years and use. One of our own members sold his Dinan E92 M3 with many more cool go fast items to get his current .2 GT3 and could not be happier.

Agreed, most mods never get their money on resale. Better to sell seperately and return to stock. A stroker motor is a different deal entirely. You will get some more over stock, but very difficult to sell. I like to limit my mods to simple inexpensive stuff and save the money for the next car...

I do plan on some track days, but still need the comfort for some spirited street driving and road trips. It looks like the .2 GT3 could be that car.