BMW 2-Series Gran Coupe
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-04-2020, 02:56 PM   #23
Eddien123
Colonel
United_States
1849
Rep
2,553
Posts

Drives: F30 335 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
The funny thing is the M3 is still the more exciting car to drive. I still think the E90 M3 holds it own but in terms of absolute speed the newer cars are just insane.
100%... an e92 might not be as fast in a straight line but that is all due to the transmission. An e92 M3 is still just about the best experience you can have with 4 wheels at any price
Agreed! I was really thinking about what car I enjoyed the most and overall it was the E92 m3... such a crazy engine and it didn't even feel fast but it was just engaging. I don't think many cars give that feeling. I'm hoping the M2C changes my mind or my next car likely won't be a BMW
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 02:56 PM   #24
2000Z3M
Captain
639
Rep
847
Posts

Drives: 2016 435i ZHP
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

my 2000 m roadster was just as fast, if not faster than my 435i
Appreciate 1
ChrisK4449.00
      05-04-2020, 03:10 PM   #25
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
10711
Rep
27,529
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

def feeding into the horsepower war. how fast do we need lol I mean these cars are rockets already, not complaining but where is the limit?
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST!
Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101
vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties!
Appreciate 1
Germanauto9665.50
      05-04-2020, 03:26 PM   #26
New2Roundel
Captain
465
Rep
804
Posts

Drives: Some fun stuff
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Philly, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Kind of over the horsepower wars to be honest. Would like some focus on improving driving dynamics and engagement over increasing horsepower.
Add me to the group who agrees. Once you get over 500 hp, it becomes a bit irrelevant to me. I'd rather car companies stop with the digital rocketship approach to performance and provide something that's actually fun to drive---not just when jamming the accelerator through the floor.

I am far more interesting in the poverty spec, low-hp RWD version of the upcoming M3/4 than I am of the fully loaded AWD version. I suppose if I needed one car to do everything, there would be value in the AWD, but thankfully I am not in that situation.
Appreciate 1
stein_325i25051.00
      05-04-2020, 03:29 PM   #27
SabineBimmer
Lieutenant
SabineBimmer's Avatar
United_States
765
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 2009 e92 335i LBlue Met
Join Date: May 2011
Location: East Lansing, Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...
"...BMWs with M badges have seen sales rise by 207 percent."

This is disturbing.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 03:35 PM   #28
drgmt
Lieutenant Colonel
Australia
985
Rep
1,885
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Australia

iTrader: (1)

Would be much happier if he put a limit on grill size
Appreciate 8
CSBM52695.50
mckman139.00
Germanauto9665.50
jeremyuhh463.00
hamzag20556.00
      05-04-2020, 03:41 PM   #29
dakine_surf
Captain
dakine_surf's Avatar
433
Rep
600
Posts

Drives: TiAg e91, r53 Cooper S, e28 M5
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Santa Barbara/Modena

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabineBimmer View Post
"...BMWs with M badges have seen sales rise by 207 percent."

This is disturbing.
Yeah someone else said it before as well, but there really is something wrong with this... I want less ///M badges... this new trend completely commoditizes the brand. It will be interesting to see what that does for prices in 30/40 years as they become classics.

I have done quite well investing in older ///M models over the years as they have appreciated quite steadily due to their relatively low numbers and exclusivity. I also bought most when they bottomed out... my mint 45K mile e28 M5 only cost 11 grand in 2006... last I saw they were well over the 35K mark... and my 3 e36 m3's were all bought pretty rough for cheap and have been restored and beginning to appreciate quite well.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 03:49 PM   #30
pbar
Captain
pbar's Avatar
1381
Rep
756
Posts

Drives: 992 GTS, Tesla M3P
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

They should change the marketing line to:

"The Ultimate Self-Driving Machine"

I have no interest in a car with 500+ hp that is designed for an idiot to be able to "safely" mash the throttle with the steering wheel turned.

For me every 335, 340, whatever that I've driven has felt numb and disconnected, even with the extra 'M badges'. Fast in a straight line, maybe, but designed for a market where drivers expect to be able to check their email and drink their coffee at WOT. And still brag about their 0-60 times.

The M3/M4 have historically been better in this regard. The gap is reducing recently, but at least they are (were?) designed for driver enjoyment.

I really don't see what driver engagement will be left with an 8-speed auto transmission that needs to shift gears so often that the human can no longer really be in the loop. (cue the 6MT police... ) The new X3M demonstrates this philosophy clearly for me. Brute force point&shoot machine - fast but with zero engagement.

I *really* hope that they pull something special out of the bag with the G8x to prove me wrong. Fix the steering numbness. Make the ZF box something where the driver is in charge of shifts and the gearbox does wha it's told. Get the AWD out of my face once it's done the first 10ft of your 0-60 'race'.
Appreciate 3
stein_325i25051.00
Germanauto9665.50
AD18347.50
      05-04-2020, 04:14 PM   #31
JCZ5
Major
JCZ5's Avatar
1483
Rep
1,369
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 (G05)
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

I hear you when people who say M has been diluting the brand for the last few years. But we also have to him them credit for staying in and expanding the M brand. If an automaker focuses on catering to the enthusiast crowd, they will either fail, not be scalable or be affordable.

BMW adding more M trim to non-M cars is not a big deal. From a business standpoint, its fantastic they're getting so much traction and have marketed M as the "cool" trim to select. This also provides a channel for buyers to eventually jump into a true M machine.

M is still creating wholehearted M cars nonetheless. To hardcore enthusiasts, even new M cars may not fit their expectation of the original M ethos. But that is the trend for any hardcore car enthusiasts in every brand (Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, etc). Luckily, that is why the preowned market for classic cars have skyrocketed in recent years.

My fascination with BMW and M started around the e92 era. More trending to the new M, of marketing and producing performance luxury vehicles. However, I am also a relatively rare breed of individuals who appreciate the mechanical aspect of the driving experience with some caveats. Based on knowledge, I would love to own a e30 M3 or e39 M5.

Personally, I am hot and heavy for the M2C and quite enjoy the inclusion of some new tech and safety features. M did it right in my eyes, sure there are some additional aspects we would all want. But in general, it works.
Appreciate 2
EXE462097.00
      05-04-2020, 04:39 PM   #32
lepp0012
Private First Class
United_States
43
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: 2023 G80 M3CX
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
100%... an e92 might not be as fast in a straight line but that is all due to the transmission. An e92 M3 is still just about the best experience you can have with 4 wheels at any price
Such a great car. I really miss it--wish I would have kept it.
__________________
Enjoyed, but gone:
2016 C63S Sedan
2011 E93 M3 DCT
2007 E93 335i 6MT
2007 E83 X3 6MT
2001 Audi TT 6MT
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 04:57 PM   #33
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Kind of over the horsepower wars to be honest. Would like some focus on improving driving dynamics and engagement over increasing horsepower.
Especially when a sleeper Civic smokes you. :Lol:
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 05:02 PM   #34
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
The funny thing is the M3 is still the more exciting car to drive. I still think the E90 M3 holds it own but in terms of absolute speed the newer cars are just insane.
100%... an e92 might not be as fast in a straight line but that is all due to the transmission. An e92 M3 is still just about the best experience you can have with 4 wheels at any price
Agreed! I was really thinking about what car I enjoyed the most and overall it was the E92 m3... such a crazy engine and it didn't even feel fast but it was just engaging. I don't think many cars give that feeling. I'm hoping the M2C changes my mind or my next car likely won't be a BMW
I did ED on a 2011 E92 M3. Love the car, the engine, sound, etc. Why did I sell my e92?? I started to have the tick of death!! Bearings. 👎🏻

I still prefer my M2C over ever BMW I have ever had. My M2C makes my 11 BMW.
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 05:08 PM   #35
Advevo
Banned
576
Rep
1,170
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country where the taxes are too high!!

iTrader: (0)

Don’t expect BMW to limit power figures

It’s about time BMW limits size and weight!

cars at 1600kg plus are no sporty cars they are fast transport.
Appreciate 1
tetsuo1111224.00
      05-04-2020, 05:52 PM   #36
antzcrashing
Brigadier General
antzcrashing's Avatar
United_States
1875
Rep
3,200
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW 440i GC
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern MA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
No power limits*

*Limited by the segment which the car is sold in per management bean counters. Also limited by USA emissions taxes.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 05:53 PM   #37
prompt
Car Designer
prompt's Avatar
United Kingdom
292
Rep
263
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Midlands UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
Oh,sometime bmw is able to listen their customers then

next step is make good looking cars again
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 05:58 PM   #38
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
The funny thing is the M3 is still the more exciting car to drive. I still think the E90 M3 holds it own but in terms of absolute speed the newer cars are just insane.
100%... an e92 might not be as fast in a straight line but that is all due to the transmission. An e92 M3 is still just about the best experience you can have with 4 wheels at any price
It's not just the transmission. It's power/torque under the curve and engine characteristics. The transmission isn't nearly as big a factor as how the motor builds power.
Appreciate 1
Germanauto9665.50
      05-04-2020, 05:59 PM   #39
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
Don't expect BMW to limit power figures

It's about time BMW limits size and weight!

cars at 1600kg plus are no sporty cars they are fast transport.
It's about time ALL MANUFACTURERS limit weight. The BMW's are still often the lightest cars in their competitive segment. Even a GT3 weighs 3200 lbs.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 06:01 PM   #40
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
They should change the marketing line to:

"The Ultimate Self-Driving Machine"

I have no interest in a car with 500+ hp that is designed for an idiot to be able to "safely" mash the throttle with the steering wheel turned.

For me every 335, 340, whatever that I've driven has felt numb and disconnected, even with the extra 'M badges'. Fast in a straight line, maybe, but designed for a market where drivers expect to be able to check their email and drink their coffee at WOT. And still brag about their 0-60 times.

The M3/M4 have historically been better in this regard. The gap is reducing recently, but at least they are (were?) designed for driver enjoyment.

I really don't see what driver engagement will be left with an 8-speed auto transmission that needs to shift gears so often that the human can no longer really be in the loop. (cue the 6MT police... ) The new X3M demonstrates this philosophy clearly for me. Brute force point&shoot machine - fast but with zero engagement.

I *really* hope that they pull something special out of the bag with the G8x to prove me wrong. Fix the steering numbness. Make the ZF box something where the driver is in charge of shifts and the gearbox does wha it's told. Get the AWD out of my face once it's done the first 10ft of your 0-60 'race'.
If you want more control, buy a 6MT!!!


Sincerely,


The [6MT] Police
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 06:01 PM   #41
CSBM5
Brigadier General
CSBM5's Avatar
2696
Rep
3,315
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Comp, 2011 M3, etc
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
I agree. I still remember reading a review back in 2001 between E39 M5, E55 ( I think) and few others. M5 was the slowest in the bunch in straight line but it was the best drivers car and won.
You're misremembering the test. The E39 M5 was the fastest production sedan available when it came out. Here's a link to the Car and Driver test you're thinking about: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

The M5 was significantly faster than its competition. I bought one and had it for 15 years. Great car; incredible when it was announced. Still incredible today.

Here's a quote from the article:
"How do you characterize a roomy four-door, leather-lined luxury capsule that can keep up with a C5 Corvette? All the way to 150 mph! With quarter-mile performance of 13.3 seconds at 108 mph, let's just call it the fastest production sedan on the planet.

But the new M5 is more than a tire shredding drag racer (the traction control occasionally cuts in during a hard three-four shift over bumpy pavement—at 110 mph!). It stopped from 70 mph in the shortest span (156 feet), it performed emergency-lane-change maneuver successfully at the highest speed (66.2 mph), and it tied for the best cornering grip at 0.90 g. The M5 is simply a remarkably well-rounded performance machine.
"
__________________
Current Stable:
2024 G20 M340i Melbourne Red/Cognac
2019 F87 M2 Competition 6MT, LBB, slicktop, exec pkg
2007 E91 328i Silver, slushbox, Eibach fr/E93 M3 rear sway bars, ARC-8
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 06:33 PM   #42
vasi_M3
Second Lieutenant
vasi_M3's Avatar
116
Rep
243
Posts

Drives: Ex- 2015 M3... now '16 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: chicago

iTrader: (1)

How many people that have been reviewing cars recently honestly think they need more power? I think BMW is missing the mark if they're not looking for a different path forward with their M cars.

Let's make lighter cars from the factory and put an end to this BS aftermarket infatuation with carbon fiber parts. BMW should set a goal to make a 3000-3100 lb car.
If Lotus can make a 6 cylinder car with forced induction with a ton of "enthusiast" appeal why can't they do it? even if its a bit a of stripper trim...who cares...
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2020, 06:51 PM   #43
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasi_M3 View Post
How many people that have been reviewing cars recently honestly think they need more power? I think BMW is missing the mark if they're not looking for a different path forward with their M cars.

Let's make lighter cars from the factory and put an end to this BS aftermarket infatuation with carbon fiber parts. BMW should set a goal to make a 3000-3100 lb car.
If Lotus can make a 6 cylinder car with forced induction with a ton of "enthusiast" appeal why can't they do it? even if its a bit a of stripper trim...who cares...
The CF infatuation won't end. Thinking that any factory can offset the tuner market is a pipe dream. People buy Ferrari's and high end Porsche's and still seek the aftermarket. It'll never end.

If Porsche can barely get a 2-seater GT3 to 3200 lbs. (...which is a low volume seller for Porsche) and the McLaren 720 is around 3200 lbs., what makes you think it would be easy for BMW to get a passenger car to that point? A Pagani Zonda is tipping on 3000 lbs. I think you guys need to be more realistic.
Appreciate 3
JCZ51482.50
EXE462097.00
Frosty772.50
      05-04-2020, 07:03 PM   #44
Advevo
Banned
576
Rep
1,170
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country where the taxes are too high!!

iTrader: (0)

Ok thru sedan but

If you make cars bigger that means more metal, bigger carpet, wider seats, more glass etc etc.

Add lightness begins by making smaller and nimbler cars and not make every new model bigger.

M2 is bigger again then the 1m coupe. The 1m size was perfect size to start with and from that you start to make that size lighter. No BMW makes a new car M2 bigger heavier add even heavier brakes and put a carbon roof in. Please that’s just plain stupid and brings norhing.

Last edited by Advevo; 05-04-2020 at 07:08 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST