[ledphut]

Originally Posted by buddenfan

Ix shoulda had a frunk

Maaaan, tell me about it. Not sure what the engineers were thinking. Even if it was big enough for a gym bag or something..

[nerdogray]

I don't get how anyone can like it. It's fucking hideous. Nothing flows. It's just a mashup of a bunch of random pieces (the front.. the full profile from the side looks alright). Even the M4 CSL looks better than this.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

Agree. Challenging times.

People on here seem to think the weak economy is to blame for less electrification and low demand. Just saying, I don’t agree with that being the single most reason, but the EV fanatics have been brainwashed beyond rescue.

Weak economy? Inflation is wild and rates are very high relative to the last 15 years and people are still spending money like crazy.

EVs are largely seen as a gimmick, I think. The large demand that they and the governments envisioned just isn’t there. If it weren’t for regulations and tax incentives, you could probably cut that demand in half. They don’t help the environment and they aren’t really cheaper to own and run. It’s just another vehicle. Not saying it’s not cool or that it shouldn’t exist. But it’s a niche and in its infancy, still. Maybe a toddler at most. I don’t think we’ll all be driving electric vehicles in 20 years. I think something else will supplant them and I think ICE, to some degree, will still be around. Electric will remain one of many mousetraps.

[NGT2]

It’s a concept. It’s supposed to be kinda wild. I like the retro kidneys.

[stoked335d]

Little better looking than the iX but still fugly!

[Dgjo2022X5MC]

Surprisingly I don’t hate it. Tint the windows. Seems like a greenhouse.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Rivian is in trouble now.
So…

How so? They just gained access to most advanced charging systems in the world. Tesla

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Weak economy? Inflation is wild and rates are very high relative to the last 15 years and people are still spending money like crazy.

EVs are largely seen as a gimmick, I think. The large demand that they and the governments envisioned just isn’t there. If it weren’t for regulations and tax incentives, you could probably cut that demand in half. They don’t help the environment and they aren’t really cheaper to own and run. It’s just another vehicle. Not saying it’s not cool or that it shouldn’t exist. But it’s a niche and in its infancy, still. Maybe a toddler at most. I don’t think we’ll all be driving electric vehicles in 20 years. I think something else will supplant them and I think ICE, to some degree, will still be around. Electric will remain one of many mousetraps.

You are full of it.

The one thing actually worse for the environment than EVs are ICE vehicles.

Driving less, fewer cars, more VMT on buses trains, bikes and feet are all way better than any car. But continued burning of fossil fuels for personal transport is one of the worst things you can do. Ok, your PJ is worse.

Apparently you have no kids and care not about the future of the planet, spouting misinformed nonsense.

I almost feel sorry for you.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

You are full of it.

The one thing actually worse for the environment than EVs are ICE vehicles.

Driving less, fewer cars, more VMT on buses trains, bikes and feet are all way better than any car. But continued burning of fossil fuels for personal transport is one of the worst things you can do. Ok, your PJ is worse.

Apparently you have no kids and care not about the future of the planet, spouting misinformed nonsense.

I almost feel sorry for you.

Calm down, bro. I have two kids. If you want to talk about having less cars and that’s your actual agenda, okay. I say to hell with that, but at least it is actually better for the environment.

EV’s, under current battery tech, take many years on the road before their carbon footprint begins to fall below that of an ICE car. Don’t get mad at me, I didn’t create this stuff.

Fossil fuels… where do you think this electricity comes from, exactly?

Come on, man. I don’t hate EV. I don’t want one but if you do, I think you should be able to get one. All I said is that without regulations and forced markets, it’s a niche product. Sales prove it. Markets take time to develop, usually. It will be fine, no one is trying to take away the EV market. A lot of people just don’t want it forced on them. And when there’s no real benefit other than money to those in the EV business, it’s hard for me to support a government created false market. It’s just a subsidy. It’s actively killing one industry to ensure another one grows, that otherwise would not. Follow the money. It’s always about money. Always.

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by Adler11th

Exterior design looks like heavily inspired by bimmers from 70ties. I guess iX and 4 series sized grills will be gone for good too. Interested to see how their ICE vehicles will be styled.

Was my exact thoughts BMW from the 70 .. retro style

[bholler]

“That’s a shame”

[Sedan_Clan]

I like the side profile of this SAV.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Weak economy? Inflation is wild and rates are very high relative to the last 15 years and people are still spending money like crazy.

[b]EVs are largely seen as a gimmick, I think. The large demand that they and the governments envisioned just isn’t there. If it weren’t for regulations and tax incentives, you could probably cut that demand in half[/b{. They don’t help the environment and they aren’t really cheaper to own and run. It’s just another vehicle. Not saying it’s not cool or that it shouldn’t exist. But it’s a niche and in its infancy, still. Maybe a toddler at most. I don’t think we’ll all be driving electric vehicles in 20 years. I think something else will supplant them and I think ICE, to some degree, will still be around. Electric will remain one of many mousetraps.

You are 100% spot on. There’s no widespread demand for EV’s.

[swainbmw]

[QUOTE=LuisBoston;31001269]You are full of it.

The one thing actually worse for the environment than EVs are ICE vehicles.

Driving less, fewer cars, more VMT on buses trains, bikes and feet are all way better than any car. But continued burning of fossil fuels for personal transport is one of the worst things you can do. Ok, your PJ is worse.

Apparently you have no kids and care not about the future of the planet, spouting misinformed nonsense.

I almost feel sorry for you.

What’s interesting if you look into this whole debacle of gas versus electric greenhouse, gases versus global warming and methane The cars are very small percentage creating all this. The beef industry is where it’s all coming from the cars are very small percentage. I’m not against electric. I just have no desire until the mileage increases to about 600 miles and you can actually go somewhere and charge them, give it 10 years then I’ll be interested . Another thing that most people don’t realize is battering derogation is how your car is going to be valued in the future and no one is talking about this, but as that battery wears out , that’s how your car is going to be valued . And the value of ev are horrible no dealer what one back for a resale.

[SpaceRock]

Ev’s are not good and this comes from a person that has one and has free charging. They depreciate like crazy, range is laughable. They drive well and I like my car - just not the EV aspect of. It’s much more economical to buy a reliable diesel with good economy or buy a gas guzzler if that’s you thing - just stop telling each what to buy, it’s so childish. People in private jets and billionaires that live in mansions the sized of castles consume more fossil fuels then all us regular people’s driving combined and also that doughnut you ate traveled across 5 countries, the jam in it it maybe even more so stop policing each other.

Anyway the new x3 looks great, looks like in the one of 4 people that likes it

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Weak economy? Inflation is wild and rates are very high relative to the last 15 years and people are still spending money like crazy.

EVs are largely seen as a gimmick, I think. The large demand that they and the governments envisioned just isn’t there. If it weren’t for regulations and tax incentives, you could probably cut that demand in half. They don’t help the environment and they aren’t really cheaper to own and run. It’s just another vehicle. Not saying it’s not cool or that it shouldn’t exist. But it’s a niche and in its infancy, still. Maybe a toddler at most. I don’t think we’ll all be driving electric vehicles in 20 years. I think something else will supplant them and I think ICE, to some degree, will still be around. Electric will remain one of many mousetraps.

Agreed, there is a tonne of analysis on carbon footprint for a life cycle of an EV production, it’s battery production, mining, and then when the time for replacement comes in 7-9 years. The source of energy production to charge, the renewables are a small percentage at utility companies infrastructure. The simplistic view that most people have on EVs being more environmentally friendly is only true for the limited duration of ownership of what the owners see and think is what comes out of a gas car’s exhaust. EVs won’t stay as the sole option, it’s not sustainable, neither it is cheaper to own/run.

We’ll see more options for drivetrains but certainly agree that it’s possible we will see EVs only as a niche or small percentage of the market 15 years from now, maybe sooner. ICE in some form or the other will stay, maybe with a mild hybrid gaining further momentum with bigger battery boosts.






On another note: (all from design)

I cannot unsee the lack of hofmeister kink in all new BMWs and here what we see in the leak/render the Neue class is another level of butcher shop’s sharp cut gone wrong. The alternate design direction seems just horrendous Hyundai and Kia styles, all BMW character is lost. Why are they trying so hard to reinvent the cars?

I hear we need modernization but iMHO Mercedes have still kept to some design values. They don’t look ugly and you can tell they are still Mercs from a distance.

Porsche still look good (and even better, modern versions) and looks like they belong to the same family of the old panameras, 911s and Macan (even with the all news EV version).

BMW design camp is a slaughterhouse of mish mash of design teams, the bosses top to bottom who sign off on these strange looking designs with nobody to answer. What are they smoking there?

The BMW legacy is long lost since the iconic (yet controversial) designs of the Bangle or the Adrian Van Hooydonk eras. Those cars are aging quite well IMO.

We don’t need radical shifts here that speak cheapness, crass and confused design language. It’s over and over and over again with everything. Sat in an X1 Uber, no BMW feeling, the old X1 still had something to it. AND final closing note - the M2 looks weird on the road to me.

Sigh

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

You are full of it.

The one thing actually worse for the environment than EVs are ICE vehicles.

Driving less, fewer cars, more VMT on buses trains, bikes and feet are all way better than any car. But continued burning of fossil fuels for personal transport is one of the worst things you can do. Ok, your PJ is worse.

Apparently you have no kids and care not about the future of the planet, spouting misinformed nonsense.

I almost feel sorry for you.

Do you need some data, some analysis from experts?

Do you have the courage to handle it all which will blow everything you said out of the water? I have it at my fingertips but I am afraid the little brains of folks like you who have been easily sold on the EV being less polluting won’t be able to digest it.

I am talking data and analysis by economists, environmentalists and some very smart people.

Can you tell me what percentage of electricity today is produced at the grid by renewable sources?

How about the efficiency of energy transfer from grid to your FREE office outlet for charging?

Do you know the ins and outs of how an energy company like PGE manages to maintain constant up time and energy demands all the time? Does the sun shine always, does the wind always blows for energy to be supplied and flow into your grid lines at 50% minimum from “renewable”?

What about the pollution caused by mining trucks to collect rare earth metals to manufacture the battery cells that go in your EV? Mind you, the yields are very low and processing takes a lot of resources.

Have you thought about a full life cycle of an EV? You have truly not and have a lot to learn.


Lot of folks seem to have bought the musk brand soap bars by the truck load because it comes for free in those frunks to let you be completely brainwashed. Doesn’t matter what brand EV you drive, that man has a huge contribution in this world to the misinformation, much like you are sold cosmetics that may be harmful!

And on kids. DINK couples seem to love EVs, they don’t have any kids to care about. Talk facts and show numbers to back up your bold claims, don’t spitball just because you can, it’s all bogus.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Calm down, bro. I have two kids. If you want to talk about having less cars and that’s your actual agenda, okay. I say to hell with that, but at least it is actually better for the environment.

EV’s, under current battery tech, take many years on the road before their carbon footprint begins to fall below that of an ICE car. Don’t get mad at me, I didn’t create this stuff.

Fossil fuels… where do you think this electricity comes from, exactly?

Come on, man. I don’t hate EV. I don’t want one but if you do, I think you should be able to get one. All I said is that without regulations and forced markets, it’s a niche product. Sales prove it. Markets take time to develop, usually. It will be fine, no one is trying to take away the EV market. A lot of people just don’t want it forced on them. And when there’s no real benefit other than money to those in the EV business, it’s hard for me to support a government created false market. It’s just a subsidy. It’s actively killing one industry to ensure another one grows, that otherwise would not. Follow the money. It’s always about money. Always.

I can say with good authority that NGT2 has been around the block and knows what he is talking about.


Mr. High Horse Boston, please do your own research before blasting reputed forum members.

[Hedoniste]

Just saw this:

https://youtube.com/shorts/z5U7yOb-t...G2l0CKrCLEk2zO

[JorgenM]

Wow, I like this a lot.

Converted to another brand some years ago (still have an i3 though) because BMW didn't have the BEV type I was looking for, but if this ends up looking like that I might go back again

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

Agreed, there is a tonne of analysis on carbon footprint for a life cycle of an EV production, it’s battery production, mining, and then when the time for replacement comes in 7-9 years. The source of energy production to charge, the renewables are a small percentage at utility companies infrastructure. The simplistic view that most people have on EVs being more environmentally friendly is only true for the limited duration of ownership of what the owners see and think is what comes out of a gas car’s exhaust. EVs won’t stay as the sole option, it’s not sustainable, neither it is cheaper to own/run.

We’ll see more options for drivetrains but certainly agree that it’s possible we will see EVs only as a niche or small percentage of the market 15 years from now, maybe sooner. ICE in some form or the other will stay, maybe with a mild hybrid gaining further momentum with bigger battery boosts.






On another note: (all from design)

I cannot unsee the lack of hofmeister kink in all new BMWs and here what we see in the leak/render the Neue class is another level of butcher shop’s sharp cut gone wrong. The alternate design direction seems just horrendous Hyundai and Kia styles, all BMW character is lost. Why are they trying so hard to reinvent the cars?

I hear we need modernization but iMHO Mercedes have still kept to some design values. They don’t look ugly and you can tell they are still Mercs from a distance.

Porsche still look good (and even better, modern versions) and looks like they belong to the same family of the old panameras, 911s and Macan (even with the all news EV version).

BMW design camp is a slaughterhouse of mish mash of design teams, the bosses top to bottom who sign off on these strange looking designs with nobody to answer. What are they smoking there?

The BMW legacy is long lost since the iconic (yet controversial) designs of the Bangle or the Adrian Van Hooydonk eras. Those cars are aging quite well IMO.

We don’t need radical shifts here that speak cheapness, crass and confused design language. It’s over and over and over again with everything. Sat in an X1 Uber, no BMW feeling, the old X1 still had something to it. AND final closing note - the M2 looks weird on the road to me.

Sigh

I don't think there's any analysis that includes all the variables in producing and operating an electric vehicle, as well as repair and disposal. They certainly don't consider the particulate emissions studies that some have posted on the EV thread.

That said, this thread is about a new design. Can we post the EV comments on the thread I've linked? It has some info on the particulate emissions.
https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...19029&page=321

[Travis]

The newer leak actually makes a lot more sense and looks not bad at all. But would that be 4 kidney grills?