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      08-26-2020, 01:46 PM   #4511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondragon View Post
Yeah, 50-60 cents a round is pretty common these days. Not fun. But yeah I look online (crow shooting supply, midway, buikammo, ammo seek, etc...). I'm also a bit picky about what brands I'll run, which makes it harder. But I have a few thousand rounds of 5.56 currently which is nice. I can't find 9mm online anywhere, but my local shop got some in yesterday and I was able to get some. Crazy times!
ive been pretty lucky finding 9mm locally. bought 2k rounds at 18/round a few weeks back. thank god i built a 9mm ar
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      08-26-2020, 01:49 PM   #4512
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
ive been pretty lucky finding 9mm locally. bought 2k rounds at 18/round a few weeks back. thank god i built a 9mm ar
That IS lucky! I was able to get 200 rounds of 9mm at 48 cents a round locally and felt lucky after being unable to get any for the last month or so.
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      08-26-2020, 01:54 PM   #4513
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That IS lucky! I was able to get 200 rounds of 9mm at 48 cents a round locally and felt lucky after being unable to get any for the last month or so.
yeah its super cheap target ammo but doesnt hurt as bad when i burn through clips at the range having fun. especially with a binary trigger.
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      08-26-2020, 02:13 PM   #4514
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any manufactures to just stay away from? when looking at AR models?

deciding factors on pistols? ie cal.


can a remmy 870 be modified?
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      08-26-2020, 02:22 PM   #4515
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Originally Posted by mantis View Post
any manufactures to just stay away from? when looking at AR models?

deciding factors on pistols? ie cal.


can a remmy 870 be modified?

Really depends on your budget. In general the more you spend the better quality you get. Obviously I think you should get one of my ARs. https://www.horizonarmsresearch.com

If you mean AR Pistols - I am a HUGE fan of .300 blackout for a bunch of reasons. I don't really like 9mm ARs (but many people do). 5.56 is fine as long as the barrel is 11.5" or longer (I have a few shorter barrel 5.56 ARs and imho the tradeoffs aren't worth it for most use cases).

If you mean a normal handgun pistol, then you really should try various weapons at a range/friend's house, etc.. Everyone's hand ergonomics are different, and what guns will feel good and more importantly point naturally will vary person to person. Also depends on what you want to do with it, i.e. a full size handgun for open carry/truck/bedside table vs. a sub-compact for concealed carry, etc..

I'm a big 9mm fan for handguns in general.

There are a ton of aftermarket parts for the 870, and it's a great shotgun!

Personally I like my shotguns semi-auto (reduced recoil and better tactical efficiency IMHO) like the Benelli M4 or IWI TS12.

If you want info/advice specific to your needs/situation/etc... feel free to email me too: devon@horizonarmsresearch.com Happy to help if I can!
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      08-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #4516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
any manufactures to just stay away from? when looking at AR models?

deciding factors on pistols? ie cal.


can a remmy 870 be modified?
Palmetto State Armory (PSA) rifles generally get a bad review, but I haven't seen enough samples to verify that. The current generation Bushmaster rifles (now owned by Remington Arms) are not that good.

Generally speaking, if you get a mil-spec AR15, then you should have a good, useable rifle that you can easily modify or upgrade parts on. There are many companies that make the various parts and you can put them together in numerous ways. Hundreds of thousands of combinations.

A few recommend manufacturers: Smith and Wesson, DPMS, Bravo Company, Aero Precision, Daniel Defense, Ruger, Sig Sauer. All make complete rifles and the various parts that you can buy almost anywhere. California may be an exception.

For pistols, stick with the major manufacturers. Not because they are guaranteed to be better, but because you'll have more buying options and accessories for future use. Like devondragon said, 9mm is good. Don't get caught up in the caliber wars. Modern 9mm ammunition is completely capable of stopping a human.

Good pistol makers: Smith and Wesson, Sig Sauer, Glock, Springfield, Ruger, H&K, and others that I can't think of right now.

Personally, I prefer a full size pistol over a small pistol. I carry a S&W M&P 9mm concealed. Small guns may be easy to carry, but they are harder to shoot well. You may need or want a smaller gun based on how you intend to use it and carry it, or if you have small hands, or your clothing choices may limit you to small guns that are easily concealed, but know that you have to give up a little shootability for concealability.

In any case, buy a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver. You don't need/want to give up the ammo capacity of the auto for the simplicity of the revolver.

The Remington 870 is the most popular shotgun in the world. There have been more than 11,000,000 produced since it was introduced in 1950. Yes, it can be modified. As much as you want.

Even though it is a great shotgun, I generally don't recommend shotguns for self/home defense. The downsides outweigh the perceived benefits.

It sounds like you are new to guns, which is fine, and we are happy to answer your questions. You might be better off taking one gun at a time and learning about it, rather than trying to buy three different platforms all at once. If you only want one type of gun for now, a modern, mid- to full-size semi-auto pistol in 9mm will cover most of your needs. If you have a spouse, s/he should be included in your buying process.

No matter what you buy, invest in training. And I mean good training, not a day at the range with the local NRA instructor who teaches you how to load and clean. You need multiple sessions with a good teacher who can get you proficient in shooting your gun.
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      08-26-2020, 03:04 PM   #4517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
ive been pretty lucky finding 9mm locally. bought 2k rounds at 18/round a few weeks back. thank god i built a 9mm ar
Insanely lucky.
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      08-26-2020, 03:17 PM   #4518
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Agreed 100% on the training! While I am a huge fan of high quality guns and accessories, if you don't have the training and skills to use it correctly it's practically useless.

Good training will leave you with a lot of micro-drills and dry fire drills so you can get good at a lot of things from home with no ammo, which is nice.

I plan on posting a lot of free training videos and articles over time, but these guys are my go to for training (FWIW) - https://www.noirtraining.com

There's a lot of great training companies out there.
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      08-26-2020, 03:50 PM   #4519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondragon View Post
Really depends on your budget. In general the more you spend the better quality you get. Obviously I think you should get one of my ARs. https://www.horizonarmsresearch.com

If you mean AR Pistols - I am a HUGE fan of .300 blackout for a bunch of reasons. I don't really like 9mm ARs (but many people do). 5.56 is fine as long as the barrel is 11.5" or longer (I have a few shorter barrel 5.56 ARs and imho the tradeoffs aren't worth it for most use cases).

If you mean a normal handgun pistol, then you really should try various weapons at a range/friend's house, etc.. Everyone's hand ergonomics are different, and what guns will feel good and more importantly point naturally will vary person to person. Also depends on what you want to do with it, i.e. a full size handgun for open carry/truck/bedside table vs. a sub-compact for concealed carry, etc..

I'm a big 9mm fan for handguns in general.

There are a ton of aftermarket parts for the 870, and it's a great shotgun!

Personally I like my shotguns semi-auto (reduced recoil and better tactical efficiency IMHO) like the Benelli M4 or IWI TS12.

If you want info/advice specific to your needs/situation/etc... feel free to email me too: devon@horizonarmsresearch.com Happy to help if I can!
great info thank you
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      08-26-2020, 03:52 PM   #4520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly320s View Post
Palmetto State Armory (PSA) rifles generally get a bad review, but I haven't seen enough samples to verify that. The current generation Bushmaster rifles (now owned by Remington Arms) are not that good.

Generally speaking, if you get a mil-spec AR15, then you should have a good, useable rifle that you can easily modify or upgrade parts on. There are many companies that make the various parts and you can put them together in numerous ways. Hundreds of thousands of combinations.

A few recommend manufacturers: Smith and Wesson, DPMS, Bravo Company, Aero Precision, Daniel Defense, Ruger, Sig Sauer. All make complete rifles and the various parts that you can buy almost anywhere. California may be an exception.

For pistols, stick with the major manufacturers. Not because they are guaranteed to be better, but because you'll have more buying options and accessories for future use. Like devondragon said, 9mm is good. Don't get caught up in the caliber wars. Modern 9mm ammunition is completely capable of stopping a human.

Good pistol makers: Smith and Wesson, Sig Sauer, Glock, Springfield, Ruger, H&K, and others that I can't think of right now.

Personally, I prefer a full size pistol over a small pistol. I carry a S&W M&P 9mm concealed. Small guns may be easy to carry, but they are harder to shoot well. You may need or want a smaller gun based on how you intend to use it and carry it, or if you have small hands, or your clothing choices may limit you to small guns that are easily concealed, but know that you have to give up a little shootability for concealability.

In any case, buy a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver. You don't need/want to give up the ammo capacity of the auto for the simplicity of the revolver.

The Remington 870 is the most popular shotgun in the world. There have been more than 11,000,000 produced since it was introduced in 1950. Yes, it can be modified. As much as you want.

Even though it is a great shotgun, I generally don't recommend shotguns for self/home defense. The downsides outweigh the perceived benefits.

It sounds like you are new to guns, which is fine, and we are happy to answer your questions. You might be better off taking one gun at a time and learning about it, rather than trying to buy three different platforms all at once. If you only want one type of gun for now, a modern, mid- to full-size semi-auto pistol in 9mm will cover most of your needs. If you have a spouse, s/he should be included in your buying process.

No matter what you buy, invest in training. And I mean good training, not a day at the range with the local NRA instructor who teaches you how to load and clean. You need multiple sessions with a good teacher who can get you proficient in shooting your gun.
great info also thank you.

while im no noob, i have been shooting and been around guns most of my life, i havent needed to buy one till now. training will be a must as the GF will need it and im never above more education for myself
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      08-26-2020, 04:01 PM   #4521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly320s View Post
...I generally don't recommend shotguns for self/home defense. The downsides outweigh the perceived benefits.
I'm not disputing the above, but I'll share why I chose a shotgun as my primary home defense long gun... I live in a condominium so I am very concerned about penetration and hitting neighbors. To make things more difficult, my unit faces the courtyard and there's another row of buildings about 50 yards away. I even modified my Benelli so the semiautomatic action cycles lighter loads reliably for this reason.
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      08-26-2020, 04:12 PM   #4522
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Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
I'm not disputing the above, but I'll share why I chose a shotgun as my primary home defense long gun... I live in a condominium so I am very concerned about penetration and hitting neighbors. To make things more difficult, my unit faces the courtyard and there's another row of buildings about 50 yards away. I even modified my Benelli so the semiautomatic action cycles lighter loads reliably for this reason.
Yeah my bedroom has a Benelli M4 with a good light on it. While I don't have to worry about over penetration like your situation, I figure if I wake up at 3 AM, I may not be as precise as I am when I'm fully awake, and a scattergun would be a good option.
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      08-26-2020, 04:13 PM   #4523
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Also, for full size handguns, don't forget the Beretta 92 platform. My personal favorite full size handgun. The new M9A3 is especially amazing IMHO.
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      08-26-2020, 04:23 PM   #4524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondragon View Post
Also, for full size handguns, don't forget the Beretta 92 platform. My personal favorite full size handgun. The new M9A3 is especially amazing IMHO.
figuring on whatever pistol i get will need light laser combo
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      08-26-2020, 04:28 PM   #4525
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Originally Posted by mantis View Post
figuring on whatever pistol i get will need light laser combo
I just got eight of these in - https://www.surefire.com/products/il...ights/x300u-b/

If you want one email me, I will give you a very fair price.
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      08-26-2020, 04:29 PM   #4526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondragon View Post
Yeah my bedroom has a Benelli M4 with a good light on it. While I don't have to worry about over penetration like your situation, I figure if I wake up at 3 AM, I may not be as precise as I am when I'm fully awake, and a scattergun would be a good option.
How far is the longest shot you can take in your house?

How big of a pellet spread do you get at that distance?
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      08-26-2020, 04:32 PM   #4527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly320s View Post
How far is the longest shot you can take in your house?

How big of a pellet spread do you get at that distance?
Even using #4 shot you'd be surprised at how tight the pattern is out to 20 yards. Penetration may still be an issue to consider.
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      08-26-2020, 04:37 PM   #4528
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Originally Posted by Fly320s View Post
How far is the longest shot you can take in your house?

How big of a pellet spread do you get at that distance?
Longest is probably 50 feet ( have a big open floor plan house ). M4 with the 00 buckshot I keep in patterns out at about 8-12" at that distance. Maybe 4-6" at the average distances within my house. Still better than .223-38 But the real thing isn't some massive spread, it's that if I'm off center (waking up from dead sleep, or shaking from adrenaline, or whatever) instead of putting a small hole through someones arm, hip, or edge of the chest, I have 9 decently hard hitting pellets impacting multiple locations with each shot.

*shrug* I have also made the mental case for a suppressed SBR in .300 blk since shooting indoors without ear pro (5.56 or 12 ga) can be super disorienting, and a nice quiet .300 might be a winner... Not 100% sure.

Why don't you like shotguns for HD?
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      08-26-2020, 04:57 PM   #4529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondragon View Post
Longest is probably 50 feet ( have a big open floor plan house ). M4 with the 00 buckshot I keep in patterns out at about 8-12" at that distance. Maybe 4-6" at the average distances within my house. Still better than .223-38 But the real thing isn't some massive spread, it's that if I'm off center (waking up from dead sleep, or shaking from adrenaline, or whatever) instead of putting a small hole through someones arm, hip, or edge of the chest, I have 9 decently hard hitting pellets impacting multiple locations with each shot.

*shrug* I have also made the mental case for a suppressed SBR in .300 blk since shooting indoors without ear pro (5.56 or 12 ga) can be super disorienting, and a nice quiet .300 might be a winner... Not 100% sure.

Why don't you like shotguns for HD?
yeah i though that shottys were best for all those reasons, plus some more.
while i would prefer shorter barrel for quicker control and larger spread, i would think even the racking of the shotty is going to send most fuckers running
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      08-26-2020, 04:59 PM   #4530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
ive been pretty lucky finding 9mm locally. bought 2k rounds at 18/round a few weeks back. thank god i built a 9mm ar
Insanely lucky.
+1

My local gun store/range didn't see any 9mm in 2 weeks. Found 1 store in Chicago burbs, but they only sell 1 box (50) per FOID card. You have to schedule online for store appointment and the calendar is booked for 1-2 weeks.

Not many places will ship to Chicago thanks to our great leadership.

.18 per round is a great deal - I am paying over 3x as much.
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      08-26-2020, 05:02 PM   #4531
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Why don't you like shotguns for HD?
The most common criticisms are high recoil with good HD ammo and low ammo capacity. Also, for pump shotguns, more complex operation and possibility of short-stroking the action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
i would think even the racking of the shotty is going to send most fuckers running
While the ultimate decision is up to you on how to keep a firearm ready for a home defense situation I'd strongly recommend leaving them loaded with a round chambered. If you need to use it I'd rather not have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber. Not to mention that's one less round of capacity in a gun that only holds 5-6 rounds to begin with.
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      08-26-2020, 05:08 PM   #4532
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Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
The most common criticisms are high recoil with good HD ammo and low ammo capacity. Also, for pump shotguns, more complex operation and possibility of short-stroking the action.



While the ultimate decision is up to you on how to keep a firearm ready for a home defense situation I'd strongly recommend leaving them loaded with a round chambered. If you need to use it I'd rather not have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber. Not to mention that's one less round of capacity in a gun that only holds 5-6 rounds to begin with.

The M4 has very little recoil (heavy + semi-auto action) and mine holds 9 rounds. I agree, pump action adds to the complexity of the situation, and with sweaty hands and racing the clock its easy to screw up a pump (at least for me).

I also agree with leaving one chambered. If I'm armed, then I need to be ready to shoot someone if I deem it necessary. I can yell, or try to deescalate verbally if the situation warrants, but in general I don't want to be trying to use weapon noises to scare someone. I don't want to be in a position where I can't shoot if I need to, and I don't want to be in a position where I have to announce my location before shooting.
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