M Throttle mode or regular on the track/autocross - Which is faster, M Button or not?

[nachob]

Gentlemen, on the track or autocross, M Dynamic mode for stability control is a no brainer. However, the throttle M button makes me wonder. Most reviewers say you have to be careful with the throttle when you are at the limit. So my question is: At the limit or you finding the regular throttle setting makes it easier to make delicate adjustments or is it too slow. Or the opposite, is M Button throttle too sensitive for at limit adjustments and will break the rear wheels loose.

Which is faster?

[Franklin Joseph]

M mode is a little harder to modulate the throttle, but once you get used to it on track, it gets better/easier and you'll enjoy it.

Regardless, unless you are a super smooth driver, MDM is gonna hamper you powering out of the corners quickly, and you'll get frustrated with it on. Also, with MDM off, at the limit, the car can catch you out if you are not paying attention.

Best try both methods and see which you like better. For me, MDM on, M mode off. MDM full off, M mode on.

[AM1N]

Originally Posted by nachob

Gentlemen, on the track or autocross, M Dynamic mode for stability control is a no brainer. However, the throttle M button makes me wonder. Most reviewers say you have to be careful with the throttle when you are at the limit. So my question is: At the limit or you finding the regular throttle setting makes it easier to make delicate adjustments or is it too slow. Or the opposite, is M Button throttle too sensitive for at limit adjustments and will break the rear wheels loose.

Which is faster?

When full throttle, M-Mode doesn't matter; the car will be just as fast. M-Mode simply engages a different fuel map which changes the throttle sensitivity. It doesn't necessarily make the car faster. Yes, it may FEEL faster, but all it really does is make the car more jerky/sensitive. As for the track, I would say M-mode is beneficial (maybe because it makes you think your cars faster and you'll be more ballsy?)

[rusty racer]

On another thread it was nearly proven that m button also affects the wastegate to help maintain boost between shifts, I believe...

But it is difficult to modulate the thottle with the twitchier throttle map. Anyone with a good lap time and consistent times tried out the various modes and times?

I ran with M mode off and in MDM mode. I found the MDM mode a bit obtrussive in long sweeping carousel type turns where you would normally throttle steer and slide a bit. But I was too chicken to turn it off on my first day out in the 1M. I will try it next time. I did not have a lap timer to get multiple times and experiment.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by AM1N

When full throttle, M-Mode doesn't matter; the car will be just as fast. M-Mode simply engages a different fuel map which changes the throttle sensitivity. It doesn't necessarily make the car faster. Yes, it may FEEL faster, but all it really does is make the car more jerky/sensitive. As for the track, I would say M-mode is beneficial (maybe because it makes you think your cars faster and you'll be more ballsy?)

Thanks, but we're past this level. We already understand that the car is not faster, just the throttle pedal position to throttle actuation map is different.

The question if for track/autocross folk in terms of when you are REALLY are driving on the edge, have most found the sensitive M throttle setting better, or is the regular throttle map allow for more delicate throttle application to keep you from flying off the track.

This is as simple as I can make it. I think "track" people know what I am talking about.....I hope?

[nachob]

Originally Posted by rusty racer

On another thread it was nearly proven that m button also affects the wastegate to help maintain boost between shifts, I believe...

But it is difficult to modulate the thottle with the twitchier throttle map. Anyone with a good lap time and consistent times tried out the various modes and times?

I ran with M mode off and in MDM mode. I found the MDM mode a bit obtrussive in long sweeping carousel type turns where you would normally throttle steer and slide a bit. But I was too chicken to turn it off on my first day out in the 1M. I will try it next time. I did not have a lap timer to get multiple times and experiment.

Thank you! This is the sort of stuff I was getting at.

Supposedly ///M says MDM is almost as fast in terms of lap times as no traction control. Being as I have a monthly payment, I am willing to forego a second a lap to drive my car home after the track day.

Which is another reason I don't want to go out on the track just yet and go into sensitive M throttle mode and fly off the track, break my air dam if other fellow racers are finding it too twitchy.

Hence, this post.

[bdaddylo]

Like any car you need to get a feel for it and learn its behavior at its limits. If you have good car control skills, by no means would I be scared of it on a dry track with all the nannies switched off.

The main reason I'm doing PCD is to explore the 1M's limits on BMW's dime.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Like any car you need to get a feel for it and learn its behavior at its limits. If you have good car control skills, by no means would I be scared of it on a dry track with all the nannies switched off.

The main reason I'm doing PCD is to explore the 1M's limits on BMW's dime.

that would have been nice! Always wanted ED, but PCD would've been very helpful here!

[marcel b]

I have the M-mode on for the better throttle response and I find it also easier to modulate the throttle in M-mode.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by AM1N

M-Mode simply engages a different fuel map which changes the throttle sensitivity. Yes, it may FEEL faster, but all it really does is make the car more jerky/sensitive.

Not true. Leave M-mode off if you want longer spool time. (more lag)

It not only changes throttle input vs throttle blade angle, but also the waste-gates from being normally open to normally closed.

(Normally closed offers faster spool from no-load to full-load, normally open offers increased fuel efficiency in low-load situations)

[silvs]

Originally Posted by nachob

Thanks, but we're past this level. We already understand that the car is not faster, just the throttle pedal position to throttle actuation map is different.

The question if for track/autocross folk in terms of when you are REALLY are driving on the edge, have most found the sensitive M throttle setting better, or is the regular throttle map allow for more delicate throttle application to keep you from flying off the track.

This is as simple as I can make it. I think "track" people know what I am talking about.....I hope?

The difference in the wastegate control should help though.

[Dan Parker]

From my day at Road Atlanta this summer I got some good traqmate data. There were some temperature variables that cause inaccuracies throughout the day but from what I could tell I was fastest with electronics off and the m button (aka sport) not used. I didn't want to ball up my almost new car so I figured shutting the gizmos off was already crossing the line and the car was very loose. I know how M mode works and in theory it should be faster but I was fighting for rear end traction all day so I preferred having a more progressive feeling go pedal. Like Franklin said it's easier to modulate the throttle with M off so if rear traction is causing a lot of oversteer it makes sense (to me) to keep M off. The car was 100% stock at the time and some qualified guys on here have been on track with good suspension and much better track tires then the stock Michelins so these items might make improvements to MDM and M mode on track.
MDORPHN is at Barber MotorSports Park right now (on R888's) so he may be able to give some good feedback.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Dan Parker

From my day at Road Atlanta this summer I got some good traqmate data. There were some temperature variables that cause inaccuracies throughout the day but from what I could tell I was fastest with electronics off and the m button (aka sport) not used. I didn't want to ball up my almost new car so I figured shutting the gizmos off was already crossing the line and the car was very loose. I know how M mode works and in theory it should be faster but I was fighting for rear end traction all day so I preferred having a more progressive feeling go pedal. Like Franklin said it's easier to modulate the throttle with M off so if rear traction is causing a lot of oversteer it makes sense (to me) to keep M off. The car was 100% stock at the time and some qualified guys on here have been on track with good suspension and much better track tires then the stock Michelins so these items might make improvements to MDM and M mode on track.
MDORPHN is at Barber MotorSports Park right now (on R888's) so he may be able to give some good feedback.

Thanks Dan. That's what I was wondering about.

It seems like getting power down was an issue and touch throttle at the limit could slow you down. I also know enough that sometimes "feeling fast" is slower than actually "going fast."

[Rasya]

From my track experience in my stock car all I can say is that DSC off + M-mode scares the shit out of me sometimes :-) The car can be really twitchy like this, which I love, but for me it's not the quickest setting.

On a next trackday (if any are to come before winter) I would go for m-mode with mdm OR without m-mode and dsc off. These are way more confidence inspiring.

Anyway, like Dan said, I think my 18" m3 wheels with yokohama advan semi-slicks will change all of this and provide the needed traction to switch mdm off and m-mode on!