My experience with the M3 6 Speed

[kthxbye]

To be honest, and remember this is based on just driving one M3, I didn't like it. In the M3's defense, this is likely because I daily drive a Z06 and I've grown to adapt to and actually prefer the way that car shifts.

I was curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Obviously the M3's manual is not crap, a ton of people have it and a ton of people enjoy it. Personally what I did not like (in comparison to the Z06) was that the M3 felt to "light". The clutch pedal had little to no tactical feedback, the shifter gave me little resistance or feedback (often I found myself looking to ensure I was in gear), and the shifter itself was huge IMO.

I will be looking to get more seat time in other 6 Speed M3s, I feel that I may just need to get used to the difference or maybe something was wrong with that one car. I have read up on the aftermarket SS kits, but will those also add a little resistance to the M3 shifter?

I probably sound like a complete fool here saying that I like something on a Corvette more than an M3 so I'll stop for now

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by kthxbye

To be honest, and remember this is based on just driving one M3, I didn't like it. In the M3's defense, this is likely because I daily drive a Z06 and I've grown to adapt to and actually prefer the way that car shifts.

I was curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Obviously the M3's manual is not crap, a ton of people have it and a ton of people enjoy it. Personally what I did not like (in comparison to the Z06) was that the M3 felt to "light". The clutch pedal had little to no tactical feedback, the shifter gave me little resistance or feedback (often I found myself looking to ensure I was in gear), and the shifter itself was huge IMO.

I will be looking to get more seat time in other 6 Speed M3s, I feel that I may just need to get used to the difference or maybe something was wrong with that one car. I have read up on the aftermarket SS kits, but will those also add a little resistance to the M3 shifter?

I probably sound like a complete fool here saying that I like something on a Corvette more than an M3 so I'll stop for now

Lots of discussions about this if you are interested. It is one of the more popular topics over the years.

[RudyP]

I have a Porsche 997 with a great manual transmission and the M3 shifter felt a little lacking in comparison. But you do get used to it and while not as positive or mechanical feeling as others it isn't really a bad shifter. Also, I eventually added a UUC short shifter and with that it is much better. The clutch is light and has a high engagement point but I never found that to be much of an issue. I do notice the changes when I get back in the 911 after driving the M3 a lot.

[AZM3III]

I personally agree that my Z16 Corvette shifter and clutch provided far superior feedback compared to my new '11 M3. I have performed the 3 common mods (spring, shifter knob, and short shift kit ) and it is MUCH better.

The high engagement is still hard to get used to after jumping out of the Corvette, but I am sure I will adjust as I get more seat time just like I did on my E46.

I still love the M3 - no regrets!

[LTJohn]

My issue with the Z06 has always been the 2-3 shift. I can't tell you how many times I pushed to the diagonal, and got the gate. The Z06 is a bolt-action shifter like a rifle. You have to do a little Z-bend to get into gear. I thought it was just me, but I was doing a ride along with a pro and he missed it twice too. Sucks for the guy behind you when he taps your bumper! I always loved the firm resistance of the forward/back shift motion, though. Oddly, the newest CTS-V isn't as bad. Thank god you really only need to shift once and a while with all that torque!!

The M3 has more of a vague/springy motion. It works great, but requires some trust. The only time I mess up with the M3 is when heel-toeing into second for a tight turn...you can pass into the "reverse" area detent if you are under stress. It is safe, since reverse is forward, but it is a hassle.

For me, the current porsche shifter is a great mix of the above scenarios. It has some of the bolt-action feel, but unlike to Z06, it never hangs up.

Too bad they can't make an S2000 shifter in a 400bhp car!!!

[Black Gold]

To me the gearbox is fine, it's the clutch.

It's...

- way too light
- has a spring that releases at the top
- has a high engagement point
- is too long

I hate it, but it's still better than an automatic IMO.

I recently drove an evo x and was so impressed with the short and firm linear clutch feel.

M3 clutch ftl imo

[crabman]

Originally Posted by kthxbye

I probably sound like a complete fool here saying that I like something on a Corvette more than an M3 so I'll stop for now

There are number of things I like better about the vettes and likewise the M3, each have their strengths. Anyone who cant admit the corvette has real strengths is not a car guy. Or someone who got spanked hard and has sour grapes.

As to your post I wasn't too fond of the shifter/clutch either during my test drive. I ended up ordering the dual clutch which I considered switching to a stick right up until my car went into production. I'm a life long stick guy and haven't owned anything else for nearly two decades but I felt like I wanted a change and also to give a dual clutch a try. As I entered the dealership I was teetering on the fence in this regard and I think it was the weak shifter/clutch that put me over the edge into DCT land. It probably didn't help that I had just been in a P car doing a test drive a couple hours earlier which also had a much better feeling stick. Think I liked that one better than the Z.

Since my car is in production I guess like it or not I'm stuck with the DCT for the next two years so I hoping I don't hate it as I'm sure I would have become used to the shifting feel in this one soon enough.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

I find my 2012 shifts smother (1st to 2nd) then my 2011 did. I think it is just a matter of time and one gets used to the way it shifts. Perhaps OP needs to (as he suggests) try a few others.

[mjposner]

Simple, get a dct!

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

To me the gearbox is fine, it's the clutch.

It's...

- way too light
- has a spring that releases at the top
- has a high engagement point
- is too long

I hate it, but it's still better than an automatic IMO.

I recently drove an evo x and was so impressed with the short and firm linear clutch feel.

M3 clutch ftl imo

Too funny !!! I love the clutch. Loved from the minute I test drove it for the first time. The shifter is too light, but I am used to it now, and the lightness of both clutch and shifter makes for the ability to pull off lightening fast shifts.

Honestly, every car will have a different feel and it is just a matter of getting used to, I think.

[PhillyNate]

I love the gearbox not the clutch. IMO the clutch is acceptable at best. All I ask is a little more feedback at the engagement point. I'm used to it now though. If I absolutely had to say something nice about the clutch is that it feels indestructible with an experienced manual driver. Maybe that's because you can't feel anything.

[DylanMckay]

Just want to be sure I understand what the point of the thread was. Are you simply comparing the two manuals? Or the cars in general and just commenting specifically on the tranny?

I never have understood this comparison. A z06 is a dedicated track machine if you are honest with yourself. I think bmw would have TOTALLY missed the marque if they put a manual tranny that felt anything like a z06 tranny into an m3 which is a street car driven 95 percent by people who never see a track and are born and bred with cars of the luxury variety.

I think 99 percent of these comparisons where people do not like xyz on the m3 when they come from a dedicated sports car is a matter of readjusting of their expectations.

If I go jump from a m3 to a z06 and say I do not like the car because it was noisy and I expected it to be quiet than its my own lack of proper expectation.

I love the z06 and when and if they come out with the next gen and a DCT/auto option I will get one for the track. I never have enjoyed driving a manual. Probably since I never grew up driving one and never learned until really embarrasingly late in life-so to me I am not good at driving them and they are super inconvenient in day-day so there is no reason at all for me to get one.

[mjposner]

Just one more thought (though I have only driven manual E45/E85 Ms). I found clutch throw take up way to long and a simple clutch stop solved that problem in all cases.

http://************/796mu8q

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by mjposner

Simple, get a dct!

Hey now, nobody wants to hear that crazy talk. Automatics FTL

[kthxbye]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

Just want to be sure I understand what the point of the thread was. Are you simply comparing the two manuals? Or the cars in general and just commenting specifically on the tranny?

My goal of this thread was to find out what others think. I wasn't sure if I was alone here or maybe I was just too used to my current car (Z06). I completely understand that they are two different cars and I would not cross shop them. Personally, a few priorities and needs are changing and that is why I am jumping to a M3.

In addition to my uncertainty, I wanted to see if an aftermarket short shifter would correct this. I have yet to drive a DCT car, I am hoping to this week. If all goes as I've read/heard I think that my be the route for me.

However, I will be given the M3 6 speed another shot.

[elh0102]

Shifters and clutches are subject to personal preference, but I agree with the OP's general observation of prefering the ZO6 shifter over the BMW. I've owned both, plus a few Porsches, and the BMW clutch and shifter are, IMO, the weaker of the group. My current M3 is a DCT, which is something I would not consider in a Porsche, since I really enjoy their clutch and shifter. I just bought a used Cayman S, and, while the PDK would be a bit faster around the track, I really enjoy operating a traditional manual again. As for the current generation ZO6, I find its clutch to be little soft, but the shifter is good.

[Gumulri]

Originally Posted by mjposner

Simple, get a dct!

sport car you have to go with manual

[Franken///M]

I feel the M3 6MT issues are blown out of proportion on this forum. Is it perfect? No, however if you listen to this forum is a worst shifter due to the mushiness, lack of feedback, ect. After 6000 miles I am starting to like this transmission more and more every day. My only complaint is the hang up on the 1-2 shift that happens every so often.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by kthxbye

My goal of this thread was to find out what others think. I wasn't sure if I was alone here or maybe I was just too used to my current car (Z06). I completely understand that they are two different cars and I would not cross shop them. Personally, a few priorities and needs are changing and that is why I am jumping to a M3.

In addition to my uncertainty, I wanted to see if an aftermarket short shifter would correct this. I have yet to drive a DCT car, I am hoping to this week. If all goes as I've read/heard I think that my be the route for me.

However, I will be given the M3 6 speed another shot.

Uh 04 Corvette? 2004 is old school IMO and I am in my 30s. Thats like comparing a 1991 Acura NSX clutch to a 2012 E92 M3 clutch. Come on now. lol

I say get with a newer car and adapt. Same could be said for the Z4MC although I love the feel of that car, there are a bunch of guys/gals that say you need a CDV delete because its too torquey or has a long first gear. Not so by any means. You adapt to the car, period.

Give the M3 another chance or try out a 2011 ZR1.

[ProsDoc]

Agree with the OP 100%. I'm coming from a 2007 Sti putting down 377/364 at the wheels and I was so used to the heavier clutch feel, short throws of the shifter, and the engagement point that I when I test drove the 6MT, I just flat out didn't like it. I've always been a manual guy but I really liked the DCT over the 6MT...personal preference I guess....

[stefan]

Originally Posted by ProsDoc

Agree with the OP 100%. I'm coming from a 2007 Sti putting down 377/364 at the wheels and I was so used to the heavier clutch feel, short throws of the shifter, and the engagement point that I when I test drove the 6MT, I just flat out didn't like it. I've always been a manual guy but I really liked the DCT over the 6MT...personal preference I guess....

Really? You're comparing a highly modified Japanese car with a SSK to a stock German car with a regular shifter?

I think if you're coming into a BMW with that sort of vehicle of a reference frame, there's no way you're going to like it. I can't stress this enough: BMWs have always had long throws. I agree that the clutch is a BIT on the soft side. And on the M3, they put the worst shift knob imaginable on there. Trust me, switch to the ZHP and it's a night and day difference.

Just.. trust me on that one. When you take out the old knob you will be amazed they ever considered using it in an M3. It's insanely tall, rubbery, light, and hollow. So get rid of that POS immediately.

As for the throws, I guess I can say you will get used to them. I've been driving BMWs for a while now and I don't even notice it.

[Doc V.]

Originally Posted by kthxbye

I daily drive a Z06 and I've grown to adapt to and actually prefer the way that car shifts.

With time, you may find that you can adapt to the M3's six speed manual transmission--and clutch--as well.