[Pond]

Love the modern phrase of 'dynamic pricing'.
Used to be called 'profiteering', but the other one does sound much nicer.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

Love the modern phrase of 'dynamic pricing'.
Used to be called 'profiteering', but the other one does sound much nicer.

Or loss leadering as some of the dynamic adjustments are to sell at a loss but with a gross contribution - a price that you couldnt manage all year as it would be loss making but you can manage short term as its a contribution to fixed costs.
When you put the price up at certain times its actually called capturing some of the consumer surplus.... selling at higher prices to those who were prepared to pay a higher price than the normal market price...

And yes we use it - but then why would a hotel room be the same price on NYE with nice views of the fireworks over the Thames and the London eye compared to a wet grey miserable Jan with nothing happening in London....

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

If it must be a dealer - I would supply them all the parts so they can't rip you off on markup, then just the labour, disposal and standard scope?

I am going to guess that they simply wouldn't do it if you brought your own parts in... I asked mine about supplying my own oil and they went "nope"... Fortunately, they supplied the oil at not much more than I could have sourced it... So I wasn't unhappy...

[Kendo67]

Originally Posted by Pond

Used to be called 'profiteering', but the other one does sound much nicer.

Still is called profiteering , depending on which side of the fence you reside.

Flew to Heathrow , late December of last year and it cost £340 return for myself and Mrs Kendo , tried to book again for late May to visit the daughter and it was £840 for the same midweek times as we travelled in December.

Checked the train prices but unfortunately they are not running the days we need due to maint / strikes , which is possibly the reason BA saw fit to conveniently invoke their "dynamic pricing" policy for those dates.

K

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Kendo67

Still is called profiteering , depending on which side of the fence you reside.

Flew to Heathrow , late December of last year and it cost £340 return for myself and Mrs Kendo , tried to book again for late May to visit the daughter and it was £840 for the same midweek times as we travelled in December.

Checked the train prices but unfortunately they are not running the days we need due to maint / strikes , which is possibly the reason BA saw fit to conveniently invoke their "dynamic pricing" policy for those dates.

K

You call it profiteering, I'd say its making enough to keep the service running in those periods when they dont make a profit... I wonder what the fully costed (including an apportionment of all fixed costs) total is to fly that route on that plane, and what that equates to per person on an average occupancy? My guess is alot more than £170 per person...

No profit, no service long term....

(profit is not a bad thing - if you have money in a pension pot for when you retire you will be glad the companies they invest in are making a profit).

PS late May, you mean during school half term, near the bank holiday of May 27th?
PPS I imagine they use similar algorhythm software as us which looks at historic data, current events etc and predicts likely demand on any given day - so yes, it is almost certainly picking up the train disruption, and factoring in higher demand - and when demand goes up and supply doesnt...

[TurboWeasel]

Dynamic pricing indeed. How about dynamic payment in return?

When did the older car discount scheme kick in? My 8 year old 330d went in for it's 2 year service last June @ the full fat price of 600 odd quid. Maybe I wasn't wearing the right colour loafers with my chinos (no socks, of course) and therefore not considered dynamic enough?

Originally Posted by Watsey

At the prices BMW pay it’ll cost them less than £100 for the oil and a tenner for the filter.

The rest is labour plus OHP.

And YTS apprenticeship labour at that, judging by the quality of workmanship at most BMW dealers.

[Kendo67]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

You call it profiteering, I'd say its making enough to keep the service running in those periods when they dont make a profit... I wonder what the fully costed (including an apportionment of all fixed costs) total is to fly that route on that plane, and what that equates to per person on an average occupancy? My guess is alot more than £170 per person...

No profit, no service long term....

(profit is not a bad thing - if you have money in a pension pot for when you retire you will be glad the companies they invest in are making a profit).

PS late May, you mean during school half term, near the bank holiday of May 27th?
PPS I imagine they use similar algorhythm software as us which looks at historic data, current events etc and predicts likely demand on any given day - so yes, it is almost certainly picking up the train disruption, and factoring in higher demand - and when demand goes up and supply doesnt...

Never been on a flight to/from London that isn`t full , and if they were making a profit at £340 they are making a killing at £840.

SleezyJet to Gatwick is >30% of the cost of BA to Heathrow on the same dates (27/05) so guess where our ££ are going , just need to rethink our sleeping arrangements as we normally stay at the Bailey`s Hotel in Kensington which is a 1 min walk from Gloucester Road station and handy for everything we normally do.

K

PS , its acceptable not to mention pensions on almost every post

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Kendo67

Never been on a flight to/from London that isn`t full , and if they were making a profit at £340 they are making a killing at £840.

SleezyJet to Gatwick is >30% of the cost of BA to Heathrow on the same dates (27/05) so guess where our ££ are going , just need to rethink our sleeping arrangements as we normally stay at the Bailey`s Hotel in Kensington which is a 1 min walk from Gloucester Road station and handy for everything we normally do.

K

PS , its acceptable not to mention pensions on almost every post

To be fair, I'd rather drive than take easy jet!

And the pension bit was just to remind people that they benefit from profits too, they are a good thing!

[Kendo67]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

To be fair, I'd rather drive than take easy jet!

And the pension bit was just to remind people that they benefit from profits too, they are a good thing!

16 hours minimum on the road at 50 mph or 2 hours in an aluminium tube at 400 mph , i will take the paraffin budgie any day of the week regardless of who owns it .

Only pulling your leg about the pension

K

[Pond]

Originally Posted by Kendo67

i will take the paraffin budgie any day of the week regardless of who owns it .
K

Or floating coach!

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

To be fair, I'd rather drive than take easy jet!

And the pension bit was just to remind people that they benefit from profits too, they are a good thing!

They have their place and I’ve had many decent flights with them, most recently last year to Fuertaventura and it was no worse than a BA short haul to be fair….

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by JD6

Yes it’s Lloyd - they are pretty good but there’s not a lot of choice up here. 2 free tyres sounds pretty remarkable. If mine gets a nice wash and vac I’m generally happy!

The wash on its own (a.k.a a quick scrub wil a gritty sponge or a broom) will be more costly than the £510. Why do people still let dealers wash their cars ??

A FBMWSH has had no value to me for many years, given the age of my car. I do all the routine servicing myself (7K oil & filter changes, air filter, cabin filter, brake fluid changes, pads, etc) and take it to an Indy when more complicated things need doing.

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

And the pension bit was just to remind people that they benefit from profits too, they are a good thing!

Only if you're earning enough to make the most of it, otherwise it's just another kick in the balls of more stuff that's stupidly overpriced in modern life so the company can cream the profits out and pass of to shareholders at the expense of those actually purchasing the product or service in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I do get why shareholding is a good thing, but like most good things greed becomes inevitable and ever increasing profit margins become the goal, rather than sustainable business that's at a reasonable cost to the consumer. And because there are relatively few independent companies providing true competition in many areas, the need to keep prices reasonable isn't that high. I mean in the world of cars, in any given area how many different companies are there selling cars? Not many I'd bet, and that means that the daft service prices for most things are sustained because every dealer charges the same. And it's definitely not the mechanics making the big money.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

Only if you're earning enough to make the most of it, otherwise it's just another kick in the balls of more stuff that's stupidly overpriced in modern life so the company can cream the profits out and pass of to shareholders at the expense of those actually purchasing the product or service in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I do get why shareholding is a good thing, but like most good things greed becomes inevitable and ever increasing profit margins become the goal, rather than sustainable business that's at a reasonable cost to the consumer. And because there are relatively few independent companies providing true competition in many areas, the need to keep prices reasonable isn't that high. I mean in the world of cars, in any given area how many different companies are there selling cars? Not many I'd bet, and that means that the daft service prices for most things are sustained because every dealer charges the same. And it's definitely not the mechanics making the big money.

This reminds me of a story from twenty years ago which sums up the ridiculous costs of anything car related to a tee...

I used to own a Mitsubishi Evo. There was a local builder (as in house builder) who ran an amateur Mitsubishi rally team so had two full time mechanics. To pay for his mechanics, he would get them to service and repair Joe Public's Evos. They were exceptionally good and charged £12 an hour (2001). Of course they were well regarded and always very busy.
After a year of using them, they put their prices up to £25 per hour overnight. Over 100% increase!

I was not happy about the huge increase and was told "every other specialist garage is charging £25 per hour, so we were losing out".
The mechanics didn't get a pay rise when the increase was levied.

I understand our resident accountant will extol the virtues of a healthy profit margin (he would, he's an accountant) but in the example above it was for pure profit from a chap who made his money elsewhere and didn't need the extra. After a year or two the Motorsport company was dissolved as people stopped using them as they brought nothing to the table that couldn't be sourced elsewhere for a similar or less cost.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

To be fair, I'd rather drive than take easy jet!

And the pension bit was just to remind people that they benefit from profits too, they are a good thing!

I read recently that the average UK citizen reaches state retirement age with a 'portfolio' of £37k in cash of one form or another. Not a lot is it?

Do those people get a huge discount from car dealerships?

Nope. In your scenario they are making themselves poorer so the very few can be even richer. Something the UK has been on a trajectory toward for many years.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Pond

I read recently that the average UK citizen reaches state retirement age with a 'portfolio' of £37k in cash of one form or another. Not a lot is it?

... and if that is "average" then half will be below that, of course... and the other half will be skewed by those with massive portfolios...

Originally Posted by Pond

Nope. In your scenario they are making themselves poorer so the very few can be even richer. Something the UK has been on a trajectory toward for many years.

... and continues to be so...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

This reminds me of a story from twenty years ago which sums up the ridiculous costs of anything car related to a tee...

I used to own a Mitsubishi Evo. There was a local builder (as in house builder) who ran an amateur Mitsubishi rally team so had two full time mechanics. To pay for his mechanics, he would get them to service and repair Joe Public's Evos. They were exceptionally good and charged £12 an hour (2001). Of course they were well regarded and always very busy.
After a year of using them, they put their prices up to £25 per hour overnight. Over 100% increase!

I was not happy about the huge increase and was told "every other specialist garage is charging £25 per hour, so we were losing out".
The mechanics didn't get a pay rise when the increase was levied.

I understand our resident accountant will extol the virtues of a healthy profit margin (he would, he's an accountant) but in the example above it was for pure profit from a chap who made his money elsewhere and didn't need the extra. After a year or two the Motorsport company was dissolved as people stopped using them as they brought nothing to the table that couldn't be sourced elsewhere for a similar or less cost.

If you dont think making money is a good thing, can you build me a house and sell it for me for less than cost??? Thought not....

Dont confuse short term profiteering with long term profit goals. If you overcharge in the short term then you will make less in the long term. And always remember it takes 10 seconds to lower prices and about 10 years to raise them back up....

As an accountant I would always say a deal is only a good deal if everyone is happy. Screwing the customer or supplier isnt a way to generate a long term relationship that is good for either...

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Screwing the customer or supplier isnt a way to generate a long term relationship that is good for either...

Supermarkets have been 'screwing' their suppliers for years, they are famous for it.
Certainly in the car industry the suppliers have been 'screwing' the customer for years aswell.

With both examples it has become so widespread it has now been accepted as the 'new normal' and part of life IMO

Proof of the latter is the very examples discussed in this thread; £300 plus for an oil change in any car is too much but that is now accepted as being the 'norm' because it is hard to find anywhere cheaper. Just because everybody charges too much doesn't make it less wrong, it's just wrong across the board.

I'm starting to sound like a left wing nutter/ communist which I didn't think I was

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

Supermarkets have been 'screwing' their suppliers for years, they are famous for it.
Certainly in the car industry the suppliers have been 'screwing' the customer for years aswell.

With both examples it has become so widespread it has now been accepted as the 'new normal' and part of life IMO

Proof of the latter is the very examples discussed in this thread; £300 plus for an oil change in any car is too much but that is now accepted as being the 'norm' because it is hard to find anywhere cheaper. Just because everybody charges too much doesn't make it less wrong, it's just wrong across the board.

I'm starting to sound like a left wing nutter/ communist which I didn't think I was

The problem is that someone has decided that customers want posh showrooms to go with their posh brands with posh coffee machines and posh scandi wood design, but they also want to buy their cars on line from whoever will sell it them the cheapest.... So you have manufacturers insisting dealers have the latest and greatest showrooms and interior kit, whilst margins on selling getting ever worse, meaning service has to not only make all the profit but also cover ever increasing property costs...

When I bought my E30, the BMW dealer in my home town was down a side street, a bit like pre fab with glass, and had a forecourt that housed about 15 cars, Public parking was mainly on the road! Now its a massive glass and metal place with a huge display area outside. The old BMW dealer became the mitsubishi colt garage, then a skoda garage, then a used car place.... its probably a charity shop now....

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

its probably a charity shop now....

Even they aren't cheap anymore.

I have a friend whose youngest daughter works for a 'charity' (don't know what she does or which one TBH), but she earns VERY good money!

[JD6]

Here’s the invoice for the service. Seems it’s the diamond-encrusted microfilter that’s the most inflated individual charge! £234.88 fitted inc VAT…

[M80]

It's not really any wonder that BMW and others now offer 0% finance on servicing