[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

You have driven so many good posters and so much good discussion from these forums over the years, such a sad and pathetic man.

Mashin, I have never got this, if you don’t like what he says, you can just ignore him.

Your post and replying is just adding and allowing, and it demonstrates he is getting to you, and you are losing it getting personal on a car forum.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

Have to agree. The whole point of car 'forums' or 'clubs' has always been the shared admiration of the ICE.
EVs should come under a separate category IMO. I still think that the only reason people are so defensive of EVs is that they save a shedload of tax by driving them and want to justify it, as I have never heard of anyone buying one privately because they wanted one.

BIK and tax offsets should never be part of a 'car enthusiast's' remit IMHO.

you have no tax saved here (except RFL) and bought because I waned to try one and to be honest was bored with the noisy exhaust look at me sort of car, and still getting to the same place at the same time as most roads are busy and covered in cameras. I'd never had a Jag and never had an EV so it was a chance, as a car enthusiast, to try two things I hadnt had before....

Surely the idea of a car enthusiast is that you like cars, and the method of propulsion is part of the interest...?

And as has been said, different things to different folks, making out is a binary black is good and white is bad option is pretty daft. That applies on propulsion method as much as whether talking saloon or estate, awd v rwd/fwd, coupe v convertible, or which is the best colour...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pentland

You’ll notice a certain group, who may not respond due to their blocking policy, have left the discussion….

Or we were out having fun, using our cars rather than talking about them? Can thorughly recommend One Life, the film about the chap who saved 669 jews from Czechoslovakia just before the outbreak of WW2...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JD6

I agree that a great engine can be a key part of an enjoyable car, but I think handling and response to steering input are if anything even more important. Something which combines both - say a 4 litre Cayman, is probably about the pinnacle at the affordable end of the market.

Over the last 7 years, I’ve enjoyed driving a Mini Cooper D as a second car, despite the engine being the least impressive part of it - the way it handles and responds to steering input made it fun for me. I test drove a few possible replacements and was probably heading for a petrol Cooper S replacement when by chance I had a Cooper S Electric loan car for the day. To my surprise I enjoyed it more than the petrol one. It weighs 145kg more than the petrol one, but the CoG is lower, so it turns in more sharply and understeers less.

The range of 100 miles (officially 140) means it’s impractical for most, but it works for me as a second car, as I always have the other one available.

I haven’t given up on petrol cars - the 840i is great and I expect its replacement will be petrol. I’ve been flirting with something a bit crazy and V8, but while I used to think EV=dull, I don’t think it has to be.

Agreed, I think my iPace drives really well, corners very well for a big old barge, and also does refined comfort. I've had more people comment on it than the RS or M5.

I still love getting in the Mini and driving a proper car with a proper gearbox though. Its not noisy, its not particularly fast, but it is engaging. That is the nature of the car...

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

you have no tax saved here (except RFL) and bought because I waned to try one and to be honest was bored with the noisy exhaust look at me sort of car, and still getting to the same place at the same time as most roads are busy and covered in cameras. I'd never had a Jag and never had an EV so it was a chance, as a car enthusiast, to try two things I hadnt had before....

Surely the idea of a car enthusiast is that you like cars, and the method of propulsion is part of the interest...?

And as has been said, different things to different folks, making out is a binary black is good and white is bad option is pretty daft. That applies on propulsion method as much as whether talking saloon or estate, awd v rwd/fwd, coupe v convertible, or which is the best colour...

Absolutely agree with you. But you're one of the few who enjoy a bit of banter, and are comfortable having a laugh at yourself.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by crAbb

You hit the nail on the head. EVs are nothing more than the accountants car.

Most of the accountants I know (partners at big 4 firms) have got multiple cars including noisy v8s (or V10s or V12s), some how motorbikes, many have EVs too... they like cars and also like to turn up at clients in something more understated and that looks like they know what they are talking about when advising on tax saving...

so yes, accountants cars...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by crAbb

Absolutely agree with you. But you're one of the few who enjoy a bit of banter, and are comfortable having a laugh at yourself.

well I know a few on here personally, including one who is banned, and they are all decent blokes who you can have a good laugh and joke with...

Maybe some just bring out the worst in them?

Anyway off to spend the day before deciding whether I prefer a petrol small convertible or an electric large crossover, it may take a bit of time to decide...

I do know I prefer carbon producing fuels for my very long journey tomorrow, so if I am not around, its not I've given up the banter, its a day of airport lounges and long arse flights!

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by AndyMD

95% of EV owners would not go back to ICE cars.

I'm one of the 5% then!

From Tesla Model 3 & PHEV XC40 to E39 525d and R50 Mini Cooper.

And I'll be getting back into EV as soon as possible!

Originally Posted by boba-fett

I want a nice big growly V8 even if its my daily and enjoy it.

I was out today enjoying a bit of driving, pretty much just for the hell of it, and oh the downshifts, the rev matching and the thrum of a nice V8. Glorious.

Out of curiosity, what car is that you were driving?

My take on it is this: There are far fewer 'interesting' cars available these days. Cars with >4 cylinder engines have moved up the cost tree, and are now financially unreachable to the many. They have been replaced with anodyne 4 cylinder engines whose turbochargers and GPFs suck any soul out of their firing orders and provide a torque-rich, yet thoroughly boring power delivery. Throttle response is numbed as a safety measure and to help comply with emissions regs.

This has created both a gap and changed the dynamic of expectation. EVs, with their instant performance, scalpel-sharp throttle response (in some cases, not you Polestar) and low running costs, are here to fill this gap. And for some, the intrinsic refinement of silence is preferable to the monotone blare of a 4 cylinder making noise through layers of NVH material.

One final point to crAbb - I did see in another thread your comment about an EV Ducati. I'm in complete agreement with you - it absolutely wouldn't be the same. But then again, an engine on a motorbike is a completely different proposition to an engine in a car.

For one, you sit on it. You feel it. It's not tucked away in an NVH-shielded bulkhead. The airbox is under your chin. From a straight-line perspective, a motorbike is just an engine and a seat. Yes Euro 5 is quietening down exhaust noise (still super easy to swap-out on a 'bike though) however Manufacturers are already working around that by introducing airbox trumpets to pipe induction sound ahead of the fuel tank .

And for me this is the rub. Car engines are boring. Bike engines, however, are so much more interesting. Not just by virtue that you're a part of it, but by the fact there is still such variety available; single cylinder, two cylinder (parallel & v-twin), triples and four cylinders (inline & V4), and that's before all the various capacities and differing firing orders.

So in summary:
Car engines are boring = go EV
Bike engines are interesting = stay ICE

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Grant_7

I'm one of the 5% then!

From Tesla Model 3 & PHEV XC40 to E39 525d and R50 Mini Cooper.

And I'll be getting back into EV as soon as possible!




Out of curiosity, what car is that you were driving?

My take on it is this: There are far fewer 'interesting' cars available these days. Cars with >4 cylinder engines have moved up the cost tree, and are now financially unreachable to the many. They have been replaced with anodyne 4 cylinder engines whose turbochargers and GPFs suck any soul out of their firing orders and provide a torque-rich, yet thoroughly boring power delivery. Throttle response is numbed as a safety measure and to help comply with emissions regs.

This has created both a gap and changed the dynamic of expectation. EVs, with their instant performance, scalpel-sharp throttle response (in some cases, not you Polestar) and low running costs, are here to fill this gap. And for some, the intrinsic refinement of silence is preferable to the monotone blare of a 4 cylinder making noise through layers of NVH material.

One final point to crAbb - I did see in another thread your comment about an EV Ducati. I'm in complete agreement with you - it absolutely wouldn't be the same. But then again, an engine on a motorbike is a completely different proposition to an engine in a car.

For one, you sit on it. You feel it. It's not tucked away in an NVH-shielded bulkhead. The airbox is under your chin. From a straight-line perspective, a motorbike is just an engine and a seat. Yes Euro 5 is quietening down exhaust noise (still super easy to swap-out on a 'bike though) however Manufacturers are already working around that by introducing airbox trumpets to pipe induction sound ahead of the fuel tank .

And for me this is the rub. Car engines are boring. Bike engines, however, are so much more interesting. Not just by virtue that you're a part of it, but by the fact there is still such variety available; single cylinder, two cylinder (parallel & v-twin), triples and four cylinders (inline & V4), and that's before all the various capacities and differing firing orders.

So in summary:
Car engines are boring = go EV
Bike engines are interesting = stay ICE

I was actually out in two cars yesterday, it was a beautiful day and after all the rain, all the salt was gone and the roads were clear. Potholes still a massive issue. Both cars where NA V8’s.

You seem to be referring to newer stuff being the only option, but what about the older stuff available? all this Turbo torquey, rubbish sounding stuff you are referring to is just, well, rubbish, and you are right probably better off with an EV if that’s your only option.

But my god there is lovely, lovely ICE available for the prices you pay for an EV and in most cases a lot less.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

I was actually out in two cars yesterday, it was a beautiful day and after all the rain, all the salt was gone and the roads were clear. Potholes still a massive issue. Both cars where NA V8’s.

You seem to be referring to newer stuff being the only option, but what about the older stuff available? all this Turbo torquey, rubbish sounding stuff you are referring to is just, well, rubbish, and you are right probably better off with an EV if that’s your only option.

But my god there is lovely, lovely ICE available for the prices you pay for an EV and in most cases a lot less.

How many new cars can you get with NA V8's?? I can only think of a couple of cars that have had NA V8 in the past 10 years! Not everyone wants old cars!

And also you've mentioned the price of EV's ( and all new cars to be honest) I'm glad the prices are tanking, more chance of getting a good buy on the used car market!

And even those who have got new EV's, does the recent price drop really matter? Most of these are company cars, on lease or PCP where they will be handed back at the end of the term. So yes they've dropped a lot recently but it's firms that are out of pocket, not the individuals!

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

You seem to be referring to newer stuff being the only option, but what about the older stuff available? all this Turbo torquey, rubbish sounding stuff you are referring to is just, well, rubbish, and you are right probably better off with an EV if that’s your only option.

But my god there is lovely, lovely ICE available for the prices you pay for an EV and in most cases a lot less.

You can't compare circa 10+ year old V8 cars with brand new EVs. Clearly that's not apples-for-apples.

Some people don't want 10+ year old cars, only brand new or nearly new. Which is the basis for my comments.

I'm still curious, what were these NA V8s you were driving?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Grant_7

You can't compare circa 10+ year old V8 cars with brand new EVs. Clearly that's not apples-for-apples.

Some people don't want 10+ year old cars, only brand new or nearly new. Which is the basis for my comments.

I'm still curious, what were these NA V8s you were driving?

My guess is one would be his Ferrari convertible.....

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

My guess is one would be his Ferrari convertible.....

Ah...well I doubt there'd be many people who would prefer an EV over something as specialist & exotic as a Ferrari V8.

Comparing boggo Asda apples to Waitrose foie gras !!!

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Grant_7

Ah...well I doubt there'd be many people who would prefer an EV over something as specialist & exotic as a Ferrari V8.

Comparing boggo Asda apples to Waitrose foie gras !!!

I could buy new but I could not handle the depreciation, I have only had one brand new car, had it 11 days and lost a few quid in the meantime. So I try and buy smart now in that respect. But I have never lusted after another new car. Lottery winner, of course I would though.

What is the main reason of buying new other than the obvious nobody else has owned it? Over slightly older and far better value?

Tech, Warranty, PCP, monthlies, incentives?

I ask because, If thats the case and you had £60k cash of your own money to spend on a car, would it be a new Tesla EV for example?

Just interested.

[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

My guess is one would be his Ferrari convertible.....

And his RS4

[Bryans69]

So according to some on here, despite the fact I'm still hoping to get a V8 Vantage this year, and have an MGB in the garage that is (very slowly) getting a V8, I can't be a petrolhead because I think a second hand EV, paid for by me, would actually be quite a good fit for daily work, between the camper and a sports car

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

So according to some on here, despite the fact I'm still hoping to get a V8 Vantage this year, and have an MGB in the garage that is (very slowly) getting a V8, I can't be a petrolhead because I think a second hand EV, paid for by me, would actually be quite a good fit for daily work, between the camper and a sports car

No each to their own of course, having a few cars and an EV is fine, having a EV as a only car and saying your a petrolhead does not fit the remit quite so well to me though.

But hey, all's good, keeps the forum going and excises the brain!

I thought you where looking at RS4's if I recall?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

I could buy new but I could not handle the depreciation, I have only had one brand new car, had it 11 days and lost a few quid in the meantime. So I try and buy smart now in that respect. But I have never lusted after another new car. Lottery winner, of course I would though.

What is the main reason of buying new other than the obvious nobody else has owned it? Over slightly older and far better value?

Tech, Warranty, PCP, monthlies, incentives?

I ask because, If thats the case and you had £60k cash of your own money to spend on a car, would it be a new Tesla EV for example?

Just interested.

I never bought new for me, but I did for my wife. For her the most important thing was it worked, and if it didnt, she could call recovery back to the dealer and they'd give her something in its place. Given I was often at work or away with work, that worked for her and did for me.

I bought slightly secondhand or very secondhand depending on the use it was getting. If I was going to do 35k miles a year up and down the motorways of britain then what mattered was relaibility, comfort, running costs, and being able to leave it anywhere and not worry...

When cars were doing less miles but more obvious in the office car park then nice but discrete, not great having a flash car when you are making people redundant, restructuring or selling their business...

when I went to work on the train and car was for weekend fun, well it was buying what I wanted the best way... when I bought the M5 that was new as they were giving silly deals, when I bought the RS4 it was going to be slightly second hand till I found a new one at a great deal. iPace and Mini both bought nearly new...

Horses for courses for me. When it was a company car it had to be new, I did try to get better cars secondhand but could never sell it!

£60k of my own money, probably the bulk of the payment on an iPace and a JCW convertible owned outright... after I'd put the same in my pension of course!

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

And his RS4

Is that the V8 version, assumed it was a v6 TT. The V8 is a fab engine but no faster and a lot less economical. Makes a nicer noise though, although when I went to Simply Audi at Beaulieu it was the loud ones that got stopped, I sailed through without any worries

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Is that the V8 version, assumed it was a v6 TT. The V8 is a fab engine but no faster and a lot less economical. Makes a nicer noise though, although when I went to Simply Audi at Beaulieu it was the loud ones that got stopped, I sailed through without any worries

Yes Ian its the B8 V8. Could not afford the V6!

Its nippy enough, but I need the allrounder element of it moving house and its proving to be a great tip run car as I need to declutter!

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

I could buy new but I could not handle the depreciation, I have only had one brand new car, had it 11 days and lost a few quid in the meantime. So I try and buy smart now in that respect. But I have never lusted after another new car. Lottery winner, of course I would though.

What is the main reason of buying new other than the obvious nobody else has owned it? Over slightly older and far better value?

Tech, Warranty, PCP, monthlies, incentives?

I ask because, If thats the case and you had £60k cash of your own money to spend on a car, would it be a new Tesla EV for example?

Just interested.

For me, buying new is about it being mine from the beginning, and being able to spec exactly as i wish (not applicable to the Tesla!).

i also generally keep cars a long time, so that makes the cost delta smaller over time. Our second car is now ten years old, owned from new. My cars just happen not to have lasted as needs and tastes changed.

My 2016 440i was a new purchase intended to be a keeper, but buggies etc. were more overwhelming for it than i anticipated. With a second child on the way, I opted to switch to a brand new LR Discovery, specced just so, and intended to last a decade. Rejected the first, loved the second.

Covid intervened and crazy prices made it tempting to change just as the EV bug was biting me. The only way to have a Model Y in 2022 was brand new, so that’s what i got. Never saw this one as a real keeper at the outset, more a stopgap to another EV, but it’s growing on me a lot.

And to answer your last question, in my case the answer was yes 😂

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

I could buy new but I could not handle the depreciation, I have only had one brand new car, had it 11 days and lost a few quid in the meantime. So I try and buy smart now in that respect. But I have never lusted after another new car. Lottery winner, of course I would though.

What is the main reason of buying new other than the obvious nobody else has owned it? Over slightly older and far better value?

Tech, Warranty, PCP, monthlies, incentives?

I ask because, If thats the case and you had £60k cash of your own money to spend on a car, would it be a new Tesla EV for example?

Just interested.

Some people only buy new. Just the way it is.

£60k cash of my own money? Easy; 2yr old Tesla Model 3 Performance for £30k and stick the balance in my pension.