[Bryans69]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Brand new Model 3, facelift LR (he described it as extra long range, i haven’t checked if that is how they are now branded). And an XF.

I always wanted the EV part, I am amazed myself how much the Tesla has grown on me.

I saw a lot of the facelift M3s on the road in Dubai over Xmas and they’ve certainly improved how it looks ( I’ve always felt the M3 had decent proportions from the rear 3/4s and that part is basically unchanged)

The i4 i agree on, the 4GC shape over two generations is one of the best looking cars on our roads. The Taycan always leaves me a little cold and never seems to have the presence of the Panamera.

Interesting. I could see us having a second hand one as a run about, but not really a car I think I'd ever like, and to be honest don't think the facelift improves it.

Friend has just got one, loves how it drives, but regarding the interior, the best he could muster was a reluctant "you get used to it"

I guess if he has / had an XF, unless you really need two family cars, bit of an overlap anyway

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Bryans69

Interesting. I could see us having a second hand one as a run about, but not really a car I think I'd ever like, and to be honest don't think the facelift improves it.

Friend has just got one, loves how it drives, but regarding the interior, the best he could muster was a relucant "you get used to it"

The interior is a strange one. I adored the interior in my (pre-facelift) Discovery 5, which was the opposite of the Model Y/3 in pretty much every way - almost every texture natural, festooned with buttons, built to cosset.

And yet I like the Model Y interior. I think that’s because everything I touch feels good and solid and well damped (iX3 for instance, lost this battle in the first ten seconds of me sitting in one).

The main criticisms i’d level at Tesla would be around tech, not design or interior. Not what I expected coming in.

[Wills2]

I like the i4 and the Taycan in all its forms, I think the Taycan looks a million dollars, low wide and exotic to my eyes, yes I think the range is an issue but the new Macan shows what the facelifted Taycan will offer and that's up to 380miles range, it's out of my league though.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

You really do need to stop believing everything you read in the daily fail. I've queued for a charger once in 20k miles, and that was because I was too stupid to get charge earlier and I was thinking that moving to the next one might be a stretch too far - and it was by the M1 on a busy sunday night.

I've queued for petrol more often in the same time period, and combined time of waiting longer, even though I've probably only done 5k petrol miles...

5 banks of new chargers on the M1 on the stretch I use in the 18 months I have been running an EV.

And are a lot of people getting out of them? I know a hire company are selling some - but I wouldnt want to learn EV with a hire car that I only had a few days, I think that was a foolish decision in the first place.... For the owners that have them, I only know one person who went EV and doesnt have one now - and that is my SIL, because he changed jobs and there is no (functioning) sal sac scheme or co. car scheme yet.... but he is working on it, and an EV will be back on their drive in 2024 for his weekly 300 mile commuting journeys as well as family stuff at weekend.

Might depend on where you live. North of the boarder, the infrastructure isn’t so good - despite what you may have experienced in major cities.

I’m sure you’ll pick a strawman counter for anything said against EVs but I can’t recall the time I’ve queued for petrol and it takes but a few minutes to fill up every month.

Those in my office who have had EVs say there are only two happy days of EV ownership - the day you buy it and the day you get rid of it.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by AndyMD

Electric cars, if you can charge at home, far out way combustion engine cars. Are they faster - Yes - do they hold the road the same or better? - Yes - Is the build quality the same as ICE cars - Yes - Do they depreciate any worse then ICE cars - No (all of the top 10 most deprecating cars are all petrol) - Do they catch fire more than ICE cars - No - Are they better for the environment - Yes - Are they cheaper to maintain, service and tax, Yes - I for one want to leave this planet for my grandkids in a better shape then when I was born. Are they coming down in price - Yes all he time and will continue to do so as technology gets cheaper.

You can counter every one of those statements vs ICE very easily. None of those statements apply to all EVs versus any given ice.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Pentland

Might depend on where you live. North of the boarder, the infrastructure isn’t so good - despite what you may have experienced in major cities.

I’m sure you’ll pick a strawman counter for anything said against EVs but I can’t recall the time I’ve queued for petrol and it takes but a few minutes to fill up every month.

Those in my office who have had EVs say there are only two happy days of EV ownership - the day you buy it and the day you get rid of it.

I can see an EV being the perfect car depending on your circumstances and I can also see the same to be said of a petrol or diesel or any hybrid, it all depends on what you need from it.

I always view binary opinions on this subject as internet posturing.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I can see an EV being the perfect car depending on your circumstances and I can also see the same to be said of a petrol or diesel or any hybrid, it all depends on what you need from it.

I always view binary opinions on this subject as internet posturing.

If you are a petrolhead, I am not sure what could ever be perfect about an EV. It is just muted transport. Mostly because its supposedly cheaper to run. Factor depreciation in on most and I'm not sure they are even that. I don't know enough about the tree hugging benefits, but for what I have read, I'm not even sure that even stacks up when you consider the builds, battery content and where the electricity comes from. Besides if you where that bothered and conscious, you would eliminate altogether, either, walk, take the lecky bus, bike or train.

I don't just want transport, otherwise I'd be in a Golf 1.6 diesel which does 75mpg and can do 600+ miles on a tank. and takes two minutes to fill up from the countless fuel stations. I want a nice big growly V8 even if its my daily and enjoy it.

I was out today enjoying a bit of driving, pretty much just for the hell of it, and oh the downshifts, the rev matching and the thrum of a nice V8. Glorious.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

If you are a petrolhead, I am not sure what could ever be perfect about an EV. It is just muted transport.

Have to agree. The whole point of car 'forums' or 'clubs' has always been the shared admiration of the ICE.
EVs should come under a separate category IMO. I still think that the only reason people are so defensive of EVs is that they save a shedload of tax by driving them and want to justify it, as I have never heard of anyone buying one privately because they wanted one.

BIK and tax offsets should never be part of a 'car enthusiast's' remit IMHO.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Pond

Have to agree. The whole point of car 'forums' or 'clubs' has always been the shared admiration of the ICE.
EVs should come under a separate category IMO. I still think that the only reason people are so defensive of EVs is that they save a shedload of tax by driving them and want to justify it, as I have never heard of anyone buying one privately because they wanted one.

BIK and tax offsets should never be part of a 'car enthusiast's' remit IMHO.

Indeed.

I have often wondered if EV drivers just go out to enjoy a drive. Nowhere to go, no one to take, nothing to do, just go for a spirited drive.

I know I wouldn't, because the engine is probably 90% of the reason I do go out for a completely pointless drive.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Pond

Have to agree. The whole point of car 'forums' or 'clubs' has always been the shared admiration of the ICE.
EVs should come under a separate category IMO. I still think that the only reason people are so defensive of EVs is that they save a shedload of tax by driving them and want to justify it, as I have never heard of anyone buying one privately because they wanted one.

BIK and tax offsets should never be part of a 'car enthusiast's' remit IMHO.

Exactly this all of the 'Golf Club Latest & Greatest' Brigade that i know who have purchased EVs with their own money have now reverted to IC.

I suspect if I was on a modest salary and someone offered me an EV with massive tax breaks I would have one too..... not sure I would be defending it as vigorously as some on here though

I am not even convinced in the slightest that EVs work out significantly cheaper either. Great if you are an eco warrior but I am also not convinced on that front either.

To purchase an EV with your own 'hard earned' seems like a folly but as usual those that make silly decisions don't like to look a fool.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

Indeed.

I have often wondered if EV drivers just go out to enjoy a drive. Nowhere to go, no one to take, nothing to do, just go for a spirited drive.

I know I wouldn't, because the engine is probably 90% of the reason I do go out for a completely pointless drive.

Originally Posted by Sennen

Exactly this all of the 'Golf Club Latest & Greatest' Brigade that i know who have purchased EVs with their own money have now reverted to IC.

I suspect if I was on a modest salary and someone offered me an EV with massive tax breaks I would have one too..... not sure I would be defending it as vigorously as some on here though

I am not even convinced in the slightest that EVs work out significantly cheaper either. Great if you are an eco warrior but I am also not convinced on that front either.

To purchase an EV with your own 'hard earned' seems like a folly but as usual those that make silly decisions don't like to look a fool.

Careful you two, you will be branded a wind up merchant with nothing else better to do!

[Pond]

Originally Posted by boba-fett

Careful you two, you will be branded a wind up merchant with nothing else better to do!

The EV versus ICE has become almost 'tribal' on here TBH.

I am more than happy to suck up any branding anybody wants to throw at me TBH. I come on car forums because I have a passion for cars, but only ICE cars.

If that makes me old fashioned then so be it. The irony of that is this is an old fashioned car forum,, whereas all the 'new money' went onto facebook groups years ago!

[Scoobyd]

Have to say I agree with the boys above on this one. It’s always slightly baffled me how a car enthusiasts forum has become engulfed with threads about EV’s. Even threads that aren’t about EV’s seem to somehow become about them!

As simply a mode of A to B transport yes, I fully get the appeal for some who can charge from home etc. But as a car that stirs the soul, that puts a smile on your face each time you start it, that you take on certain roads or just pop out for a drive in for the hell of it, no. I really don’t.

As a kid my walls were covered in posters of Ferraris, Lambos, you’d enviously look out at a neighbours Cosworth or new GTi. You’d pull up near something special in traffic and open your window just to get an earful of its engine. It’s why enthusiasts are termed petrolheads. Does anyone seriously lust over an EV as something that will excite them?

It’s just my personal view but a car needs an engine and a gearbox to evoke the joy in driving. The drivetrain is the heart and soul of a car. I’ve driven many EV’s from Tesla’s to Kia’s to Taycan’s and all have left me cold. I completely get their appeal for those that simply want a mode of transport, or to put costs ahead of all else. But beyond that, no.

It may well be the case that many on here have lost their joy for driving. Or they have a second car with an engine and a gearbox as their bit on the side. Or that the joy in driving means something different to them these days. All fair and understandable given our third world roads and constant war on the motorist.

But I’m still a proud petrolhead. Have been ever since a little boy. Would have been far better for me financially to jump in an EV through my business when purchasing my new car but costs aren’t the main factor for me when it comes to driving. I still want to be that little kid again who lusted after the cars on my walls. And long may that last!

[Pentland]

You’ll notice a certain group, who may not respond due to their blocking policy, have left the discussion….

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

As a kid my walls were covered in posters of Ferraris, Lambos, you’d enviously look out at a neighbours Cosworth or new GTi. You’d pull up near something special in traffic and open your window just to get an earful of its engine. It’s why enthusiasts are termed petrolheads. Does anyone seriously lust over an EV as something that will excite them?

It’s just my personal view but a car needs an engine and a gearbox to evoke the joy in driving. The drivetrain is the heart and soul of a car. I’ve driven many EV’s from Tesla’s to Kia’s to Taycan’s and all have left me cold. I completely get their appeal for those that simply want a mode of transport, or to put costs ahead of all else. But beyond that, no.

I agree that a great engine can be a key part of an enjoyable car, but I think handling and response to steering input are if anything even more important. Something which combines both - say a 4 litre Cayman, is probably about the pinnacle at the affordable end of the market.

Over the last 7 years, I’ve enjoyed driving a Mini Cooper D as a second car, despite the engine being the least impressive part of it - the way it handles and responds to steering input made it fun for me. I test drove a few possible replacements and was probably heading for a petrol Cooper S replacement when by chance I had a Cooper S Electric loan car for the day. To my surprise I enjoyed it more than the petrol one. It weighs 145kg more than the petrol one, but the CoG is lower, so it turns in more sharply and understeers less.

The range of 100 miles (officially 140) means it’s impractical for most, but it works for me as a second car, as I always have the other one available.

I haven’t given up on petrol cars - the 840i is great and I expect its replacement will be petrol. I’ve been flirting with something a bit crazy and V8, but while I used to think EV=dull, I don’t think it has to be.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by Pentland

You’ll notice a certain group, who may not respond due to their blocking policy, have left the discussion….

We know who they are, better off being on the blocked list!

But to be fair on them, they could just be rather busy on WBAC checking the value of their mode of transport

[MashinBenzin]

Private buyer. Wanted one.

Petrolhead since the 80s, teenage bedroom walls adorned then with M1s, 328s and a Countach.

Decades of consuming every bit of petrolhead journalism. Yes, engines. Also, handling, the quest for throttle response. Every car, as I recall, a compromise.

Two of the biggest petrolheads I can think of on here are Grant and Chris. Ian's history of RS4 and M5 is one to envy. Others too have great past cars.

But you know-it-alls crack the fuck on with your monotonous focus on noise and cost benefit analysis.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by Pond

Have to agree. The whole point of car 'forums' or 'clubs' has always been the shared admiration of the ICE.
EVs should come under a separate category IMO. I still think that the only reason people are so defensive of EVs is that they save a shedload of tax by driving them and want to justify it, as I have never heard of anyone buying one privately because they wanted one.

BIK and tax offsets should never be part of a 'car enthusiast's' remit IMHO.

You hit the nail on the head. EVs are nothing more than the accountants car.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by Pentland

You’ll notice a certain group, who may not respond due to their blocking policy, have left the discussion….

They're like a group of little children putting their fingers in their ears

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Private buyer. Wanted one.

Petrolhead since the 80s, teenage bedroom walls adorned then with M1s, 328s and a Countach.

Decades of consuming every bit of petrolhead journalism. Yes, engines. Also, handling, the quest for throttle response. Every car, as I recall, a compromise.

Two of the biggest petrolheads I can think of on here are Grant and Chris. Ian's history of RS4 and M5 is one to envy. Others too have great past cars.

But you know-it-alls crack the fuck on with your monotonous focus on noise and cost benefit analysis.

You don't own a BMW. You're on the wrong forum.

[boba-fett]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Private buyer. Wanted one.

Petrolhead since the 80s, teenage bedroom walls adorned then with M1s, 328s and a Countach.

Decades of consuming every bit of petrolhead journalism. Yes, engines. Also, handling, the quest for throttle response. Every car, as I recall, a compromise.

Two of the biggest petrolheads I can think of on here are Grant and Chris. Ian's history of RS4 and M5 is one to envy. Others too have great past cars.

But you know-it-alls crack the fuck on with your monotonous focus on noise and cost benefit analysis.

It can only be the Parker knoll effect.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by crAbb

You hit the nail on the head. EVs are nothing more than the accountants car.

You have driven so many good posters and so much good discussion from these forums over the years, such a sad and pathetic man.