[NanasBack]

Thought to be by many people, as the safest aircraft ever, after the initial catastrophic software issues.

WTF?.

What other hardware design problems are there?

[Eddamoo]

Why oh why didn't they modernise the good old 757, a truly fantastic bird. I know about the whole pilot type rating thing but surely running a conversion training for pilots would have been more logical than bastardisation of an ancient chassis.

I reluctantly got on a Max last year and hated every minute. That and it felt barely more refined than the -800.

[Watsey]

As per a previous thread, I’ll never fly on any of the Max aircraft.

Having a section of fuselage rip out of an airframe beggars belief.

Can you imagine being next to that and not having your seatbelt on ?

Boeing literallly builds death traps these days.

[SimonBMW1]

shame, my fav planes to travel on have always been Boeings.
The 747 was just amazing, The 777 with those engines powering up.
Travelled on a Dreamliner, doesn't feel that good tbh.

Just hope the newer 777 x is reliable

[SkyJawa]

Said it before and will again, you will never get me to set foot on a 737 Max.

It’s too old and fudged to trust your life on.

[G50]

I wonder how the pilots rationalise flying them?

At what point can a passenger find out what type of plane they will be traveling on?

[pmgreenwood]

Are there not at least 3 versions of recent 737. The 800 series that had the original software issue, the Max 8 series and now the Max 9 which the Alaska plane was.

The Max 9 issues appears to have been about an aera of the frame where sometimes a door can be placed. the issue arises of whether series 800 and Max 8 share the same frame design in that aera

[3-GT]

Originally Posted by G50

I wonder how the pilots rationalise flying them?

At what point can a passenger find out what type of plane they will be traveling on?

No I dea but you could try and target air carrier's that are all Airbus fleet like Easyjet or Wizz Air instead of Ryanair that's all Boeing.

You can input the airline in here to give you an idea how Boeing heavy an airline is.

https://www.airfleets.net/home/

I think we'll see more people taking an interest in the OEM aircraft brand they're flying on if the COMAC arrives in Europe.

[SkyJawa]

I check what fleets the airlines run before I book with them, then you can normally look up the actual aircraft it’s scheduled to be either via the carrier themselves or seatguru with your flight code.

[Steve_M_Sport]

If it's a Boeing I'm not going

[smrtypants44]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Are there not at least 3 versions of recent 737. The 800 series that had the original software issue, the Max 8 series and now the Max 9 which the Alaska plane was.

The Max 9 issues appears to have been about an aera of the frame where sometimes a door can be placed. the issue arises of whether series 800 and Max 8 share the same frame design in that aera

The standard MAX-8 doesnt have exit doors in that area (the MAX-8-200 does- the high capacity version for ulcc i.e. Ryanair) The Max-9 adds the additional doors behind the wing because of the additional length and additional maximum passenger load. Some airlines do not need the additional exit capacity and install a fuselage plug in the door opening in order to install additional seats and reduce weight/complexity (exits require a different spacing of seats for access).

[3-GT]

.

[SimonBMW1]

Originally Posted by Steve_M_Sport

If it's a Boeing I'm not going

LOL. Most are fine, 777 787 747 all excellent planes, Used to be Airbus with issue before.

United airlines have found loose bolts on there max models

Lets all waiti for the chines Comac to come in service. then you can be scared

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Watsey

As per a previous thread, I’ll never fly on any of the Max aircraft.

Having a section of fuselage rip out of an airframe beggars belief.

Can you imagine being next to that and not having your seatbelt on ?

Boeing literallly builds death traps these days.

How do you ensure this? I'm flying at the end of the month, 6 separate flights, paid for by work so have to abide by work rules, and frankly I'm on BA and American (and some didgy plane that looks more like a Cessna for the last leg...) and have no say over the aircraft I am on...

I'll have to enjoy the food and drink and die happy if it goes down....

[3-GT]

Try entering the flight detail in the 'seat maps' section on this website.

https://www.seatguru.com/

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

How do you ensure this? I'm flying at the end of the month, 6 separate flights, paid for by work so have to abide by work rules, and frankly I'm on BA and American (and some didgy plane that looks more like a Cessna for the last leg...) and have no say over the aircraft I am on...

I'll have to enjoy the food and drink and die happy if it goes down....

I'd start with airline selection. Ryanair would be a "never" as its fleet is largely (all ?) Boeing. easyJet is exclusively Airbus, so I wouldn't need to research any further. And, yes, I know these are low cost domestic operators rather than transatlantic / USA / etc.

If an airline operates a mixed fleet I'd try to find out which aircraft manufacturers it typically uses for each country and/or sector. Then ask the travel management company to advise the particular aircraft for each sector.

It'd be very simple. If any of the sectors involved recent/affected Boeing aircraft I'd refuse, on the grounds of risk to my personal safety, to make the trip. Boeing's recent safety record would easily pass a legal test under "reasonable grounds" for my refusal.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

How do you ensure this? I'm flying at the end of the month, 6 separate flights, paid for by work so have to abide by work rules, and frankly I'm on BA and American (and some didgy plane that looks more like a Cessna for the last leg...) and have no say over the aircraft I am on...

I'll have to enjoy the food and drink and die happy if it goes down....

BA no longer have any variety of 737, moving to A320s some years back. Not sure what AA have.
I always check plane type when booking tickets, for instance making sure I get A380 over B777 if the airline operates both (like SQ/EK).

[isleaiw1]

Thanks both, looks like a 777 for the trans atlantic bit and an A321 for the within the states bit. Both no doubt better than the 12 seater for the last leg!

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Thanks both, looks like a 777 for the trans atlantic bit and an A321 for the within the states bit. Both no doubt better than the 12 seater for the last leg!

I've always thought of the A321/737 as an internal plane yet I saw a few over my parents at Christmas that were on transatlantic trips (they're right under one of the main flight paths to the states/iceland etc). That's a long way on a small plane! Then again back in the winter of 2009/10 when both America and we were blasted by snow my dad was trying to get back from Austin and ended up on a 757 as the one single flight of three booked options that actually left, and he said that the seats were significantly closer together than they were on the shuttle at the time. Then again that was still preferable to the DC10 which shat its tail engine half way over the atlantic one trip! One of my mates flies 757's for DHL and has had a few times when he's been able to take off empty when moving planes between locations and said it's still the most fun plane he's piloted. It's also the one passenger plane I have a soft spot for as it was the one I'd see my dad off in regularly when he was travelling, and the first one I ever went on too. The punch in the back and the sound from them had a lot more soul than any of the modern planes. I'm guessing people felt the same about the likes of the Comet and VC10 though, and in time people will feel the same about 777's and A320's etc!

On the Boeing front this still doesn't sound good. Back when BA were taking delivery of 757's they reckoned 75% of them needed major rework with sensors incorrectly wired, etc etc. In the last 40 years it seems nothing's changed, other than planes are more complicated, technology more finicky, and the margins are closer than they were previously so when shit goes wrong, there's more consequence. Single sensors rather than multiple being one but another is just how many planes the original 707 fuselage is still ostensibly in use in the 737 today. The current problems sound like continued lack of sufficient QA processes. If they were sufficient the list of numerous carriers all flagging the same issues, and new planes having 'potentially missing bolts' is just unforgivable, especially in the aftermath of the first two 737 Max issues.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

I've always thought of the A321/737 as an internal plane yet I saw a few over my parents at Christmas that were on transatlantic trips (they're right under one of the main flight paths to the states/iceland etc). That's a long way on a small plane! Then again back in the winter of 2009/10 when both America and we were blasted by snow my dad was trying to get back from Austin and ended up on a 757 as the one single flight of three booked options that actually left, and he said that the seats were significantly closer together than they were on the shuttle at the time. Then again that was still preferable to the DC10 which shat its tail engine half way over the atlantic one trip! One of my mates flies 757's for DHL and has had a few times when he's been able to take off empty when moving planes between locations and said it's still the most fun plane he's piloted. It's also the one passenger plane I have a soft spot for as it was the one I'd see my dad off in regularly when he was travelling, and the first one I ever went on too. The punch in the back and the sound from them had a lot more soul than any of the modern planes. I'm guessing people felt the same about the likes of the Comet and VC10 though, and in time people will feel the same about 777's and A320's etc!

On the Boeing front this still doesn't sound good. Back when BA were taking delivery of 757's they reckoned 75% of them needed major rework with sensors incorrectly wired, etc etc. In the last 40 years it seems nothing's changed, other than planes are more complicated, technology more finicky, and the [...]

Just before BA retired their last 757s, I arrived at my gate at Vienna to see a BA 757 in 1980s Landor livery (basically BAs best livery). I'd had a few 757 flights but that was by far the punchiest take off I've ever had, fantastic memory.

How that airframe went out of production and the stubby 737 got bastardised to try to carry the same loads is ridiculous.

And yes the A321neos are filling a longer range niche now, with the A321neo XLR due to step it up another level.

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Just before BA retired their last 757s, I arrived at my gate at Vienna to see a BA 757 in 1980s Landor livery (basically BAs best livery). I'd had a few 757 flights but that was by far the punchiest take off I've ever had, fantastic memory.

How that airframe went out of production and the stubby 737 got bastardised to try to carry the same loads is ridiculous.

And yes the A321neos are filling a longer range niche now, with the A321neo XLR due to step it up another level.

Yes, that's by far the most classy livery they've used and what I think of as 'British Airways'. The 'One World' liveries were awful and the current one still looks a little too 'modern' for what it is. The early nineties era American Airlines livery was similarly classical and classy looking. One of the take offs my dad recalled was a massive storm that they were waiting out and the pilot came on the intercom to say 'we're going to go for it, it might be a little different to your normal take off's', and he basically punched the throttles hard and took off steeply and continued to climb what felt like straight up to get above the weather as quickly as possible. Quite fun by all accounts!

The 737 Max with the newer massive engines thrust forwards on the pylons just looks wrong. I know that this is both subjective and not necessarily true to performance but if you compare them to the first and second gen versions they're a world apart from the simple elegance. It's crazy how bastardised the platform has become compared to the elegance of the 757 which literally catered for the same criteria as the Max 8/9 now do. That was another story (we were talking about this the other day when I was still up there); apparently they were circling waiting for a break in the weather in a 737 and the pilot said that there weren't any better alternatives so they were going to 'give it a go', a confidence inspiring phrase if ever there was one. A wild landing by all accounts, followed by the pilot not realising he had left the cabin radio switch on and saying to the planes following 'be careful, that's the closest I've ever come to losing an aircraft on landing'. Apparently one of the stewardesses ran through to the cockpit (pre 9/11 days) which led to a click, and silence.

[dazzapb]

Watching the downfall at Boeing on Netflix (not that they are an authority considering they pumped out that harry shite) and other sources I am not surprised. Was chatting to a few friends at work late last year about not trusting them tightning the bolts.
When the execs have corporate manslaugter (even murder) on their hands from the max scandal and no one goes to jail (pay a huge fine) then this is the moral hazard that results.