Teaser: M4 GTS vs 911 GT3 at Hockenheim (Sport Auto)

[N & M]

Originally Posted by deemo319

The next generation 6 Series that will will transition from GT to a smaller and more performance orientation (I hope)?

Like this new render...

Let's hope they go that way.

[RingMeister01]

Really impressed by the gts.

[Advevo]

GTS is good but engineering wise it s so far off an GT3.

I tell you this.

I have owned a GT3 if you drive all day on track and get home again the GT3 feels like you never have driven on track.

When i exit the track with my BMW i can always feel the car has had a hard time.

Really porsche is something else believe me. But you pay the price for it.

The GTS for 145.000 euro is almost twice a normal M4 and that is out of this world and if you not a collector and just do trackdays you're plain crazy doing it with a GTS.

buy a new M4 for daily. Buy a second hand M4 and put in half a cage and some race seats big brakes and good suspension a little tune and you will drive identical times as the GTS for the same kind money.

I would love a GTS but not as a trackday car. Just to put it away as an investment for the future.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Yes, so what, that car has 580hp, still same same pork as Gts, even this turbo s is 1616kg. Still thats more or less same as Gts 1591kg.


We all know there are 2 turbo s times on list, 560hp and 580hp, it 1.08.7 and 1.08.5.....but some One here try to state thats a 520hp car, when its far from that. As well someone here try to make it out like porker was much more heavy-when it not. 560hp turbo s is same kg as Gts, 580 HP turbo s is a few more kg as it 1616kg thats it. No One find it strange this turbo s is faster than most cars on hockenheim! Not to strang on 750nm 560/580hp awd same weight as the lower power rwd M4 GTS.

That was me on the turbo S, which was mistaken.

Please do not forget though, the m4 GTS is also using a much sticker tire, Michelin pilot cup 2 and the turbo S is on regular pilot sport. If you put the turbo S on the cup 2 it's time will be even faster (by how much I don't know for sure) or put the GTS on a pilot sport and it's times will be slower. Either way there is a massive difference.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Advevo

When i exit the track with my BMW i can always feel the car has had a hard time.

I have not had this experience either with the F80 or the E90 before that. Maybe that has been your experience with the 1M, but you cannot generalize.

And neither can you render this type of verdict on the GTS, a car you haven't driven.

[technik330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Leave that to the CSL

Carrera -> M4
Carrera S -> M4 CP
GT3 -> M4 GTS
GT3 RS -> CSL

...leaving the AWD models out of the picture.

I was unaware there'd be a CSL version M4, jeez, now the M4 GTS kids will be the new Honda Civic M4s.

I'm kidding, relax everyone.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Belive you me, I would never buy 2 normal M4:s, and be stuck with cars that for 100% will totaly drop in value very soon. Yes I had all m cars more or less, lost very big money on them all. My bet Is GTS will not take a hit like them normal M cars. Still I am ok to lose money on cars. Had the M3 CSL For over 5 years, sold It at the time For half new price. Sure now they are up. Who knows what happen, all I know I dont know what you are saying in regards of how the m cars feels.

My cars always feelt rock solid, under hard pressure. Sure you need to mantainance cars.

CSL I was on track constantly, in Poznan, in Norway, in Sweden, in Geramny, car was parked down at Nurburgring. Sure, in the end I used up 2 gearboxes, front wheelbearings, diff was ok, all bushings one need to change as well, alot of pads and rubber. Drifshafts left/right ok but change still to prevent issues futher on. Alot of track and curbing wear cars out. Better never skip the bolt check under car now and then(paint it up to see movments on bolts etc, safety first)

And in the end I did crack the rear subframe due to only driving In S6 mode(hardest gearing). Still this happen on them Porsches as well, nothing strange. Its just cars, it only parts used by many car makers.

Not like Porsche build their own bits and bobs for the selfe in some special way. Alot of bits and bobs on my GT4 are from VW, as well I could mention the gearbox bushings on GT4 seems to not handle well under pressure. Know issu on most GT3 as well. Its just cars, eventually they wear out. Its not like its the cayenne wheelbearings on GT4. Those are on CUP cars, even they wear out. Its normal!

Originally Posted by Advevo

GTS is good but engineering wise it s so far off an GT3.

I tell you this.

I have owned a GT3 if you drive all day on track and get home again the GT3 feels like you never have driven on track.

When i exit the track with my BMW i can always feel the car has had a hard time.

Really porsche is something else believe me. But you pay the price for it.

The GTS for 145.000 euro is almost twice a normal M4 and that is out of this world and if you not a collector and just do trackdays you're plain crazy doing it with a GTS.

buy a new M4 for daily. Buy a second hand M4 and put in half a cage and some race seats big brakes and good suspension a little tune and you will drive identical times as the GTS for the same kind money.

I would love a GTS but not as a trackday car. Just to put it away as an investment for the future.

[VCP]

Believe this statement. I have over 3400Km on my GTS including Nordschleife time. If you never drive one(for more than a few KMs), you will never understand.

Originally Posted by Advevo

GTS is good but engineering wise it s so far off an GT3.

I tell you this.

I have owned a GT3 if you drive all day on track and get home again the GT3 feels like you never have driven on track.

When i exit the track with my BMW i can always feel the car has had a hard time.

Really porsche is something else believe me. But you pay the price for it.

The GTS for 145.000 euro is almost twice a normal M4 and that is out of this world and if you not a collector and just do trackdays you're plain crazy doing it with a GTS.

buy a new M4 for daily. Buy a second hand M4 and put in half a cage and some race seats big brakes and good suspension a little tune and you will drive identical times as the GTS for the same kind money.

I would love a GTS but not as a trackday car. Just to put it away as an investment for the future.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

That was me on the turbo S, which was mistaken.

Please do not forget though, the m4 GTS is also using a much sticker tire, Michelin pilot cup 2 and the turbo S is on regular pilot sport. If you put the turbo S on the cup 2 it's time will be even faster (by how much I don't know for sure) or put the GTS on a pilot sport and it's times will be slower. Either way there is a massive difference.

As there should be on a car that has a 60-80hp advantage, torque vectoring four wheel drive, lower CoG, weighs the same but has better weight distribution etc. It's not surprising that the Turbo S is quicker at all IMO.

What is surprising is that the GTS is so close to the GT3 which has even wider tires, lower weight and has "much more work done to it" over the GTS...

[VCP]

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Boss330

As there should be on a car that has a 60-80hp advantage, torque vectoring four wheel drive, lower CoG, weighs the same but has better weight distribution etc. It's not surprising that the Turbo S is quicker at all IMO.

What is surprising is that the GTS is so close to the GT3 which has even wider tires, lower weight and has "much more work done to it" over the GTS...

[deemo319]

Originally Posted by N & M

Let's hope they go that way.

I agree with you. If the 8 Series returns to take it rightful place atop the lineup as a technological tour de force so to speak that competes against the S-Class Coupe and Aston Martin whine chafing the very affluent, that leave the 6 Series to be smaller, lighter (better be) and to fit different engines across the lineup and the globe.

It makes sense for BMW to push the 6 Series down market to actually push it up, meaning showing it some love and unleash a crazy M6 and M6 CSL!!!!

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Advevo

GTS is good but engineering wise it s so far off an GT3.

I tell you this.

I have owned a GT3 if you drive all day on track and get home again the GT3 feels like you never have driven on track.

When i exit the track with my BMW i can always feel the car has had a hard time.

Really porsche is something else believe me. But you pay the price for it.

The GTS for 145.000 euro is almost twice a normal M4 and that is out of this world and if you not a collector and just do trackdays you're plain crazy doing it with a GTS.


buy a new M4 for daily. Buy a second hand M4 and put in half a cage and some race seats big brakes and good suspension a little tune and you will drive identical times as the GTS for the same kind money.

I would love a GTS but not as a trackday car. Just to put it away as an investment for the future.

This makes no sense. You have two track-purpose cars but you want to store one in a garage because it's not as engineered as the other?

What does it say about the "more engineered" GT3 when the GTS (which some like to say is essentially a 4er) is as fast on the track?

I'm pretty sure if you're a buyer of any of these cars and will drive them as intended, you care more if they serve their purpose and less on how they're engineered (that's not to say the engineering isn't significant, just isn't as important).

[Captain Unknown GT4]

The last Word is also what Christian G @sport auto say,
He say Gts is on same performance level as 991 GT3 even Gts is 137kg more heavy. He then use the Word Respect👏👍.

All must understand that thats very impressive jobb done by BMW 👍

Originally Posted by Boss330

As there should be on a car that has a 60-80hp advantage, torque vectoring four wheel drive, lower CoG, weighs the same but has better weight distribution etc. It's not surprising that the Turbo S is quicker at all IMO.

What is surprising is that the GTS is so close to the GT3 which has even wider tires, lower weight and has "much more work done to it" over the GTS...

[raysspl]

Interesting insights here

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Boss330

As there should be on a car that has a 60-80hp advantage, torque vectoring four wheel drive, lower CoG, weighs the same but has better weight distribution etc. It's not surprising that the Turbo S is quicker at all IMO.

What is surprising is that the GTS is so close to the GT3 which has even wider tires, lower weight and has "much more work done to it" over the GTS...

I never said the GT3 had more work done. The GTS had a lot done to it, likely at least matching the changes to the GT3.

We differ in that I actually think .4 here is a big gap especially when you consider that the GTS is making so much more torque, despite being heavier and likely significantly more than 25 hp more as quote from the manufacturers. Area under the curve will be much larger too because of all that. And again, the GT3 is over 3 years old and still coming out on top.
And furthermore, the GT3 RS is really the true competitor but would be too lopsided in its favor.

What I don't think you're getting is that the turbo S is on an inferior tire and is still just so much faster.

All impressive, but my money would go for the GT3 or the RS.

[Bashful]

Originally Posted by VCP

Believe this statement. I have over 3400Km on my GTS including Nordschleife time. If you never drive one(for more than a few KMs), you will never understand.

Exactly.

No Clue huh VCP?

[VCP]

In no way has any comment that I have read here taking anything away from the 911. BMW has a sight on the top and be it the 911? Maybe. What I do see, repetitively, is Porsche fans here not liking the fact that the gap is at least much smaller now.

Originally Posted by Bashful

Exactly.

No Clue huh VCP?

[Bashful]

Originally Posted by VCP

In no way has any comment that I have read here taking anything away from the 911. BMW has a sight on the top and be it the 911? Maybe. What I do see, repetitively, is Porsche fans here not liking the fact that the gap is at least much smaller now.

Well like I said earlier, 3 of us on the trip who got the M4 GTS and have put genuine kms on our cars are 911 (multiple 911's at that) owners. All of us who OWN BOTH love the GTS.

It is very very special indeed.....what was that line by MTV? oh yeah:

'You think you know, but you have no idea'

[VCP]

We also have owned 2 911's. I can't flaw them at all

Originally Posted by Bashful

Well like I said earlier, 3 of us on the trip who got the M4 GTS and have put genuine kms on our cars are 911 (multiple 911's at that) owners. All of us who OWN BOTH love the GTS.

It is very very special indeed.....what was that line by MTV? oh yeah:

'You think you know, but you have no idea'

[Advevo]

I have driven the csl the e92 GTS en in a few weeks i drive the new gts also.

I am more a BMW guy. But when a car is driven very hard on track the Porsche s will last longer!

But i would choose the BMW. The m2 off course smaller en nimbler.

[Maddict3]

GT3!

nonetheless really impressed with the M4 GTS

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

The Porsche is so much more composed. I bet a driver would be much faster over the course of a bunch of laps.