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07-24-2008, 10:20 AM | #45 | ||||||
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However, YES, BMW engineers the water pump to have an the most effective range at lower RPM. So on track, you very easily could have a cavitation issue. This is the case on every other modern BMW we have data-logged. We will be data-logging on the e92 shortly. Cavitation has nothing to do with straights or turns, it has only to do with RPM. Quote:
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1. your car is fine. 2. as long as it is a dyno-jet 248c (same dyno to see same results) and is not a competitor (must remove bias) - we must agree on the shop 3. why would I allow something to be installed by someone that may or may not know what they are doing? How would us installing the kit lead to any artificial gain? This is just a silly point. 4. The results must be within a range of +/- some percentage. Every car is not exactly the same. That is why we show REAL results on a car, and in fact I will have dyno runs soon from two other nationally known BMW shops on the east coast (Turner and BimmerWorld - where you can also buy this kit from). Just like with software (you said your car may have software), did you get the exact gains they claim? Typically there is a 10-20% variance from car to car (sometimes more). This is well documented by everyone in the industry from BMW to the entry-level tuner. Again, if you are serious, then I am 100% a go, I would not make a challenge that we were not up for. We just need to agree to conditions that do not set us up to fail. I am a bit smarter then that. Thanks everyone (well almost everyone, j/k)! Thanks Brad
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07-24-2008, 10:26 AM | #46 | ||||
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Thanks.
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07-24-2008, 10:30 AM | #47 | |||
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Thanks Brad
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07-24-2008, 10:38 AM | #48 | |
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I'll PM you later today to make arrangements, however I absolutely will not use any Dynojet model, this is the most important condition. A pulley install is supposed to be straightforward and takes less than an hour, there is no reason for your staff to install it. How about we agree on 15% variation, roughly 18-24bhp?
I think that the above conditions represent a fair real life test, not everyone will use a Dynojet 248c to test their car (I never would), and most people won't be able to use your tech for the install. Let me know if this is ok, I'm looking forward to it. Any excuse to go to Socal... Quote:
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07-24-2008, 10:46 AM | #49 | |
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You obviously know that every brand of dyno reads differently. Depending on the brand, the variation could be 50% less or 50% more gain. A dynojet 248c is the most commonly used dyno nationwide to test cars for numbers. We use it for this reason. You CAN go to a dynojet 248c ANYWHERE in the US and get a number that is within 5% of any other dynojet. Two magazines have done this exact test in the last few years. You called us out, I replied. If you want to take the challenge, then it will only be using the SAME equipment, that is the only way to guarantee parity and fairness. If you change your mind, let me know. FYI, the pulley install is about 4 hours (I was basing 2 hours off the M5 install - but this is more involved). It is done from above and below the car, not above like previous model M3's. You must remove the lower under panels, remove the airbox, remove the fan, remove one of the idler pulleys. Then when you are done, you have to replace all of those items. You MIGHT be able to do it quicker, but we choose not to RUSH on $70K+ cars - not worth scratching or damaging or not installing something correctly. We will provide complete instructions to do this. thanks brad
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07-24-2008, 10:47 AM | #50 |
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07-24-2008, 10:48 AM | #51 |
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I'm certain you can get a few hp out of a pulley but can't see how that would not affect A/C or anything AT ALL. Has to affect something. Now, the effect may be so minimal that one should not care, but I would let someone else do it and test it first.
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07-24-2008, 10:50 AM | #52 |
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I hear ya, but please realize that the V8 M3 motor is essentially the same as the V10 M5 motor less 2cyl. Especially on the front. The accessories, etc - and we have been running pulleys on the v10 since the release of that motor. Just an FYI.
thanks Brad
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07-24-2008, 10:54 AM | #53 | |
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Doesnt affect A/C or anything AT ALL
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07-24-2008, 11:01 AM | #54 | |
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I wouldn't worry about the A/C. The A/C compressor will not be on all the time unless you are driving around at noon in the middle of the desert. Even if you do that, and the compressor needs to run all the time, it shouldn't damage the compressor or the A/C system. You'll just get a little less cold air in the cabin. And I guess the compressor might not be running at peak efficiency (I must assume it is designed to run at a specific rotational speed which would change with the pulley), which might mean slightly higher fuel consumption, but it would be a rather small difference I would guess. Just a guess though.
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07-24-2008, 11:08 AM | #55 | |
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07-24-2008, 11:10 AM | #56 |
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07-24-2008, 11:11 AM | #57 |
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Well, he said they were being raced, so I am not surprised. An additional oil cooler should solve the problem. I think that's a pretty common mod with E36 M3s that are being tracked hard/raced.
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07-24-2008, 11:14 AM | #58 |
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Tracked in the drivers school, but yes, driven hard.
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07-24-2008, 11:15 AM | #59 |
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First of all Brad and Simon are stand up guys and Evosport is good company.....
I just think there are some questions that people have on this specific product. In my experience with the pulleys on the M6:
I have no doubt that the dynos show these results. And my buttt dyno may be miscalibrated. But can you corroberate with some trap speeds at the dragstrip with all things being equal except the pulleys? ND54, props.....go visit!
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07-24-2008, 11:17 AM | #60 |
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Do you know what oil temps they were running when they went into limp mode? There are 3 reports on the M3s on the forum, including mine, which reached 255 on hot summer days at the track that did not limp, so I am curious as to where the trigger point is. 275 maybe?
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07-24-2008, 11:23 AM | #61 | |
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07-24-2008, 11:32 AM | #62 |
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Putting around town with the stock pulleys, the oil temp was a needlewidth cooler than the middle meatball Putting around town with the Evosport pulleys, the oil temp was a needwidth warmer than the middle meatball Around the track with stock pulleys, the temp was between the middle and other meatball. Around the track with the Evosport pulleys, the temp was slightly higher and closer to the second meatball. Sorry unscientific but noticable. No limps in the M6
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07-24-2008, 11:37 AM | #63 | |
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All this time, I thought you knew what you were doing! Now, can you please tell me what the numbers above the three meatballs are on the M6? Same as the M3?
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07-24-2008, 11:44 AM | #64 | |
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As you can see with civilized Metric societies, we have very clean instrument clusters. See the middle 3 meatballs for reference. Middle meatball is 100 degrees C not sure if the scale is linear.
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07-24-2008, 12:03 PM | #65 |
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I don't see anything different to my M3 other than the CF. Am I missing something?
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07-24-2008, 12:04 PM | #66 | ||
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