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      02-10-2020, 10:51 PM   #89
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So this is pretty much the cheaper version of the upcoming 4 series. I loved the sound inside and outside and overall design lines of the interior and the taillights. I think my next car will be 440 either coupe or GC or Nissan 350 with manual
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      02-10-2020, 11:16 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by J-RO View Post
Where are these cars being made?
In the Leipzip plant: https://www.bmwgroup-plants.com/leipzig/en.html

They make the 1 series, the full 2 series range from the 2 active tourer to the M2C, I3 and I8.
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      02-11-2020, 09:49 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
And here is another one including a small drive in the car:

"its really like M2!" SOLD
LOL... it's a nice car, but like an M2? Really? Not even close. And I guess I would question the continued micro separation of the product line, is this car even necessary? Same for the 4 series GC. Thought 2 was coupe, 3 was sedan, 4 coupe, etc.? It's confusing to any except the enthusiasts, equally as bad as the AMG line. With the M340i such a nice car all around, my question is why this one. Maybe someone else can explain it... to me, it just dilutes the brand, confuses the consumer, and increases productions costs... for how much market share? Puzzling to me...
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      02-11-2020, 11:00 AM   #92
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God that car sucks. The proportions are all wrong and scream FWD econo box. BMW really needs to snag the designers from Mazda if they want want to build stylish FWD-based cars. Look at the current gen Mazda 3. It's FWD, but Mazda gave it a long hood which gives it a slight RWD look and it looks elegant, sporty, and somewhat pissed.

This "M235i" is just terrible from a styling standpoint. Yank the BMW badge and funky kidney grill and it looks garden variety Japanese design.
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      02-11-2020, 11:16 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
God that car sucks. The proportions are all wrong and scream FWD econo box. BMW really needs to snag the designers from Mazda if they want want to build stylish FWD-based cars. Look at the current gen Mazda 3. It's FWD, but Mazda gave it a long hood which gives it a slight RWD look and it looks elegant, sporty, and somewhat pissed.

This "M235i" is just terrible from a styling standpoint. Yank the BMW badge and funky kidney grill and it looks garden variety Japanese design.
Totally agree... the rear end proportions are ALL wrong. Adrian Van Hooydonk is single handedly ruining the brand... #SAD
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      02-11-2020, 12:27 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
In the Leipzip plant: https://www.bmwgroup-plants.com/leipzig/en.html

They make the 1 series, the full 2 series range from the 2 active tourer to the M2C, I3 and I8.
Thank you.
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      02-11-2020, 12:36 PM   #95
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LOL... it's a nice car, but like an M2? Really? Not even close. And I guess I would question the continued micro separation of the product line, is this car even necessary? Same for the 4 series GC. Thought 2 was coupe, 3 was sedan, 4 coupe, etc.? It's confusing to any except the enthusiasts, equally as bad as the AMG line. With the M340i such a nice car all around, my question is why this one. Maybe someone else can explain it... to me, it just dilutes the brand, confuses the consumer, and increases productions costs... for how much market share? Puzzling to me...
I don’t like the car, what it represents or how it looks but I see the point from a business standpoint. Every successive generation of car has pressure to get nicer, more comfortable, faster and generally improved over the last version. That means that generally speaking cars will get a little bigger and a little more expensive as they stay on the market through multiple generations. Therefore BMW needs to start heading downmarket, both as a natural consequence of this continued improvement and to keep up with their competitors.

Luckily for them, they already have a chassis willing to go with the fwd based mini platform. That means they can sell something that has excellent interior packaging, which is probably why they went 4-doors. At the same time BMW sees themselves as this stylish, premium company, so they figured they’d make it extra swoopy and a 4-door coupe. Plus...hey worked for Mercedes.

I think that’s also why BMW started pushing the big grille recently, they want people to instantly be able to recognize a car as a BMW, even (especially?) if it’s a fwd based econobox being sold for significantly more money than other, similar fwd based econoboxes. If everyone knows at just a glance that you’re driving a BMW, that extra money for the car hurts less to many people.
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      02-11-2020, 01:21 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
LOL... it's a nice car, but like an M2? Really? Not even close. And I guess I would question the continued micro separation of the product line, is this car even necessary? Same for the 4 series GC. Thought 2 was coupe, 3 was sedan, 4 coupe, etc.? It's confusing to any except the enthusiasts, equally as bad as the AMG line. With the M340i such a nice car all around, my question is why this one. Maybe someone else can explain it... to me, it just dilutes the brand, confuses the consumer, and increases productions costs... for how much market share? Puzzling to me...
I don’t like the car, what it represents or how it looks but I see the point from a business standpoint. Every successive generation of car has pressure to get nicer, more comfortable, faster and generally improved over the last version. That means that generally speaking cars will get a little bigger and a little more expensive as they stay on the market through multiple generations. Therefore BMW needs to start heading downmarket, both as a natural consequence of this continued improvement and to keep up with their competitors.

Luckily for them, they already have a chassis willing to go with the fwd based mini platform. That means they can sell something that has excellent interior packaging, which is probably why they went 4-doors. At the same time BMW sees themselves as this stylish, premium company, so they figured they’d make it extra swoopy and a 4-door coupe. Plus...hey worked for Mercedes.

I think that’s also why BMW started pushing the big grille recently, they want people to instantly be able to recognize a car as a BMW, even (especially?) if it’s a fwd based econobox being sold for significantly more money than other, similar fwd based econoboxes. If everyone knows at just a glance that you’re driving a BMW, that extra money for the car hurts less to many people.
Sadly, you may be right, except the need for a more recognizable grill. They already have it... now they look confused, like they've lost their way and are desperate, perhaps slaves to too many masters...
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      02-11-2020, 02:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
It seems to me that there was fairly succesful design language in the form of the 2er coupe. Why not start with that? Perhaps they want to distance this car as a distinct SKU, but then why preserve the naming/numbering?
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      02-11-2020, 02:51 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
It seems to me that there was fairly succesful design language in the form of the 2er coupe. Why not start with that? Perhaps they want to distance this car as a distinct SKU, but then why preserve the naming/numbering?
Interesting thought. May very well be distinct to target a certain person(s) appeal to the masses (which is likely why most don't like it because they're not the target). Maybe BMW are looking at a new segment etc...
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      02-11-2020, 03:01 PM   #99
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Quote:
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I am actually going to give this rig a try. I am going to "downgrade" from a manual m2 to a m235i gran coupe fully loaded by april. It will be a my first auto in 25 years of driving stick. It will have more tech and will be awd when needed in winter and a full sun roof and with 300+ hp on tap should be more than enough in city or highway. And I will get better gas economy, less CO2 and less carbon tax off to Trudeau, and my pocket book will be lighter on insurance. More compliant on the road and I won't be challenged by rice rockets, trucks, or rental sprinter vans in races. If this is not for me in a few years then back it goes and back to something else. But I am willing to give it a shot. After test driving the m135i hatch in europe this past fall, I am certain this will have similar amenities for me. I don't care about all the "purist" flaming on it on here.
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      02-11-2020, 03:09 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I cannot believe this, but a Civic or Corolla, which presumably this thing competes with, looks better with more uniform design language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
For those that don't like the styling, you're obviously not the target audience. So good news, you don't have to buy it!
Thanks for that. Back to discussing a brand we are enthusiastic about on a board designed specifically to discuss it.
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
So in your world, we just keep our mouths shut and/or don't buy it? Where's the fun in that? And just because presumably none of us are car designers, that means that we can't have an eye for great design or that our opinions are invalidated because it's not our job?

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. So when I see a manufacturer that I have a 10 year connection with, struggling with product line dilution, clear vision and direction, and occasional questionable design, I'm going to voice my opinion often and loudly. Just as valid when I compliment them on jobs well done. Lastly, the Kia comment was spot on, with many of the top designers recently moving between companies, specifically Kia and BMW. Personally, I think Kia's are decent cars, but that doesn't mean that I want my BMW's following their design cues.
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      02-11-2020, 03:21 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Sadly, you may be right, except the need for a more recognizable grill. They already have it... now they look confused, like they've lost their way and are desperate, perhaps slaves to too many masters...
Yeah, the new grille is awful looking to my eyes as well. Unfortunately I think you and I are probably the minority when you include non car people. I think it probably doesn’t bother most people. These days, how your big ugly grille looks is likely how non-car people identify various brands.

Personally I think all big grilles are ugly, but since the early days of the 300c I can think of only one manufacturer who backed off on their ugly grille design after complaints (Acura) while every other company just doubled and tripled down on them, which ultimately seems like it turned out to be the correct business decision. Which is too bad for all of us with good taste.
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      02-11-2020, 03:48 PM   #102
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"Very similar to M2" anddd thats where this guy lost all credibility
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      02-11-2020, 03:52 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Sadly, you may be right, except the need for a more recognizable grill. They already have it... now they look confused, like they've lost their way and are desperate, perhaps slaves to too many masters...
It’s like the designers were on LSD.
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      02-11-2020, 04:43 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
And here is another one including a small drive in the car:

"its really like M2!" SOLD
When did he say that? I heard him say "it's berry similar to m2." Lol
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      02-11-2020, 04:55 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I cannot believe this, but a Civic or Corolla, which presumably this thing competes with, looks better with more uniform design language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
For those that don't like the styling, you're obviously not the target audience. So good news, you don't have to buy it!
Thanks for that. Back to discussing a brand we are enthusiastic about on a board designed specifically to discuss it.
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
So in your world, we just keep our mouths shut and/or don't buy it? Where's the fun in that? And just because presumably none of us are car designers, that means that we can't have an eye for great design or that our opinions are invalidated because it's not our job?

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. So when I see a manufacturer that I have a 10 year connection with, struggling with product line dilution, clear vision and direction, and occasional questionable design, I'm going to voice my opinion often and loudly. Just as valid when I compliment them on jobs well done. Lastly, the Kia comment was spot on, with many of the top designers recently moving between companies, specifically Kia and BMW. Personally, I think Kia's are decent cars, but that doesn't mean that I want my BMW's following their design cues.
Right, that's what I said...keep our mouths shut. Missed the point, but that's cool.

Have a nice day.
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      02-11-2020, 05:53 PM   #106
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The pissy little engines sit on the wrong side of the front axel , this is basically a rebadged X1/X2/Mini Cooper, a premium priced tall, ugly budget FWD pieceofshit.
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      02-11-2020, 07:11 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I cannot believe this, but a Civic or Corolla, which presumably this thing competes with, looks better with more uniform design language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
For those that don't like the styling, you're obviously not the target audience. So good news, you don't have to buy it!
Thanks for that. Back to discussing a brand we are enthusiastic about on a board designed specifically to discuss it.
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
So in your world, we just keep our mouths shut and/or don't buy it? Where's the fun in that? And just because presumably none of us are car designers, that means that we can't have an eye for great design or that our opinions are invalidated because it's not our job?

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. So when I see a manufacturer that I have a 10 year connection with, struggling with product line dilution, clear vision and direction, and occasional questionable design, I'm going to voice my opinion often and loudly. Just as valid when I compliment them on jobs well done. Lastly, the Kia comment was spot on, with many of the top designers recently moving between companies, specifically Kia and BMW. Personally, I think Kia's are decent cars, but that doesn't mean that I want my BMW's following their design cues.
Right, that's what I said...keep our mouths shut. Missed the point, but that's cool.

Have a nice day.
You can keep your mouth shut... and maybe don't be so condescending. Right, how about get a life instead of have a nice life. You sure you don't own a Porsche... acting like it.
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      02-11-2020, 07:33 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I cannot believe this, but a Civic or Corolla, which presumably this thing competes with, looks better with more uniform design language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
For those that don't like the styling, you're obviously not the target audience. So good news, you don't have to buy it!
Thanks for that. Back to discussing a brand we are enthusiastic about on a board designed specifically to discuss it.
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
So in your world, we just keep our mouths shut and/or don't buy it? Where's the fun in that? And just because presumably none of us are car designers, that means that we can't have an eye for great design or that our opinions are invalidated because it's not our job?

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. So when I see a manufacturer that I have a 10 year connection with, struggling with product line dilution, clear vision and direction, and occasional questionable design, I'm going to voice my opinion often and loudly. Just as valid when I compliment them on jobs well done. Lastly, the Kia comment was spot on, with many of the top designers recently moving between companies, specifically Kia and BMW. Personally, I think Kia's are decent cars, but that doesn't mean that I want my BMW's following their design cues.
Right, that's what I said...keep our mouths shut. Missed the point, but that's cool.

Have a nice day.
You can keep your mouth shut... and maybe don't be so condescending. Right, how about get a life instead of have a nice life. You sure you don't own a Porsche... acting like it.
Lol that was brilliant! Truly. Condescending? Nope. Not even a little. Sorry you had a tough day at the office. I was being sincere when I said have a nice day.

p.s. no Porsche here my friend, sorry to disappoint.
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      02-11-2020, 07:59 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I cannot believe this, but a Civic or Corolla, which presumably this thing competes with, looks better with more uniform design language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4 View Post
For those that don't like the styling, you're obviously not the target audience. So good news, you don't have to buy it!
Thanks for that. Back to discussing a brand we are enthusiastic about on a board designed specifically to discuss it.
I wonder how all the critics, who have zero design knowledge, would fair designing any vehicle, much less this one. So easy to critique
So in your world, we just keep our mouths shut and/or don't buy it? Where's the fun in that? And just because presumably none of us are car designers, that means that we can't have an eye for great design or that our opinions are invalidated because it's not our job?

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. So when I see a manufacturer that I have a 10 year connection with, struggling with product line dilution, clear vision and direction, and occasional questionable design, I'm going to voice my opinion often and loudly. Just as valid when I compliment them on jobs well done. Lastly, the Kia comment was spot on, with many of the top designers recently moving between companies, specifically Kia and BMW. Personally, I think Kia's are decent cars, but that doesn't mean that I want my BMW's following their design cues.
Right, that's what I said...keep our mouths shut. Missed the point, but that's cool.

Have a nice day.
You can keep your mouth shut... and maybe don't be so condescending. Right, how about get a life instead of have a nice life. You sure you don't own a Porsche... acting like it.
Lol that was brilliant! Truly. Condescending? Nope. Not even a little. Sorry you had a tough day at the office. I was being sincere when I said have a nice day.

p.s. no Porsche here my friend, sorry to disappoint.
Could have fooled me... felt like passive aggressive. Shut up but have a nice day? Really? And no, I actually had a nice day, just not asked to shut up very often, and when it does happen, react pretty normally. Everyone, including you, and me, are entitled to voice our opinions. We can disagree, and still be respectful... telling me and others to shut up because you don't like what we're saying or don't agree, imho, is far from respectful. Since you don't own a Porsche, maybe it's YOU who had the bad day?
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      02-11-2020, 08:00 PM   #110
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Anywho...
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