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      03-22-2019, 04:51 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
But it is not just cost savings. FWD 4 pot cars leave a lot more room in the cabin for passengers. That might not matter all that much for a 5 or 7 series, but it certainly will for the new 1 series or the 2GC.

Besides, BMW still has the 2 series coupe with RWD so people can just pick what they want. If all you care about is driving dynamics, then surely you can do with a coupe and don't need a sedan.
No, I need a sedan...kids, local passengers fttt, race tires...they go in the back much easier with the extra doors.
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      03-22-2019, 04:58 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by marcva View Post
No, I need a sedan...kids, local passengers fttt, race tires...they go in the back much easier with the extra doors.
Maybe take a look at the G20? I understand this might be too large for you, but that BMW should kinda custom-design a car for your exact needs is also not realistic. Slightly different cars do exist, it's not like BMW switched them all over to FWD.
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      03-22-2019, 06:55 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
Maybe take a look at the G20? I understand this might be too large for you, but that BMW should kinda custom-design a car for your exact needs is also not realistic. Slightly different cars do exist, it's not like BMW switched them all over to FWD.
If I wanted a car that big, I could buy an e39 5 series.
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      03-22-2019, 07:26 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Actually BMW has differentiated itself in the market in the past, by NOT being the same as the others.

Agree 100 percent that you have to field a product in the space... BMW abandoned this product niche ( which they practically invented, and dominated for decades, then left it for dead, got their lunch handed to them in the space they abandoned , which cost them the luxury small vehicle sales crown they had held for years, and indeed, now they realized there is market share to be had and they have returned with milquetoast to sop up whatever leftovers are around.

BMW needs to hit a home run here. Mercedes already has facelift CLA out already. In many ways the X7, as well as X3M, X4M are also models that BMW has come to market late with.

If a G87 coupe has the green light , BMW should be looking at a sedan off the same chassis as well, I can't imagine how an E90 M3 sized sedan wouldn't sell if the coupe will.

BMW not fielding a 1 series sedan or a 2 series sedan in this product segment for a decade or so just is so
BMW has already lost many loyal customers in Japan for heresies like 2 series touring or 6GT. Not only are these really ugly, but they go against the biggest selling point they've established here over Mercedes or Audi which is "an ultimate driver's car." When a dealer tells me he wouldn't personally buy or recommend any modern BMW that isn't M, it says enough.

They probably don't care though because clueless housewives still buy them thinking it's a proper BMW replacing their C-HR
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      03-22-2019, 07:31 AM   #115
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FWD and competitor for the CLA.....my god has it really come to this garbage?
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      03-22-2019, 07:56 AM   #116
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BMW has finally sold out to the masses. What a shame.
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      03-22-2019, 08:17 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
But it is not just cost savings. FWD 4 pot cars leave a lot more room in the cabin for passengers. That might not matter all that much for a 5 or 7 series, but it certainly will for the new 1 series or the 2GC.

Besides, BMW still has the 2 series coupe with RWD so people can just pick what they want. If all you care about is driving dynamics, then surely you can do with a coupe and don't need a sedan.
I was expecting 4 pot with a proper RWD for lighter front end hence the return to "the ultimate driving machine".
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      03-22-2019, 09:19 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by marcva View Post
If I wanted a car that big, I could buy an e39 5 series.
You could, and you'd have a 20 year old car, with 20 year old tech. If you want something RWD in that size today, you can get a Cadillac ATS, and... that's about it. But you better get it fast, because it's being discontinued due to poor sales, partly because the car was so much less practical (i.e. "smaller") than all its competitors, even though it was strong dynamically. The same thing happened with the original X1, which if it existed today in that form side by side with the current X1 would get HAMMERED sales-wise not only by the current X1 but by the Q3, XC40, etc., because they're so much more practical. Like it or not, practicality is important in small sedans, hatches, and SUV's, or people would just buy coupes (which BMW does, in fact, still make in RWD).

If the 2GC or 1-Series sedan was RWD, the cars would cost more to build, and would maybe win some enthusiast magazine comparison tests, and maybe even a handful of you nostalgic keyboard warriors would actually put your money where your mouths are and buy it, but in the grand scheme it would lose where it mattered - in overall sales to the A-class, A3, etc., which would all be less expensive, and more roomy and practical. There aren't enough of you to build the car your way anymore, or that's how everyone would be building it. They're not, for a reason. That's a simple fact.

In a world where Porsche, Lamborghini, and soon even Ferrari are all making SUV's and practical cars, it's amazing to me how people can sit here complaining that BMW doesn't only make the same handful of cars they made 20 years ago. If they did, they'd be out of business. Because that's what this is - a business. BMW is in the business of selling cars and making money, and right now BMW is ceding about 50k sales/yr to the CLA/A-class and A3. Their lack of a presence in that segment essentially cost them the overall luxury sales crown to Benz the last two years. They need to build a car in that segment that more than a handful of vocal forum enthusiasts will actually buy. And I have no reason to believe they can't make it fun and dynamic, even in FWD/AWD form.

There are plenty of capable FWD or FWD-based vehicles on the market, from the Civic Type R to the GTI to the UKL/FAAR vehicles in BMW's own stable that would serve as the basis for this one. Reviews of the 1-Series sedan have been positive (here's one, for anyone who cares and bothered to read this far: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...on-2017-review), there's no reason to think an updated 2GC wouldn't be even better.
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      03-22-2019, 01:58 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by ProperBimmer View Post
FWD and competitor for the CLA.....my god has it really come to this garbage?
It's a big market segment as far as luxury automakers go. Audi has sold up to 35K current generation A3's per year in the US and MB up to 29k CLA's in a year. Those sales numbers would represent 15% of all BMW passenger US car sales for 2018 so you can understand why they may want to take a share of that untapped market. We all love the M cars but it's the bread and butter cars for the masses that pay the bills. Some of you have such unreasonable expectations of automakers and I wonder if you have any understanding of the automotive industry or big business in general as niche cars don't pay the bills.
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      03-22-2019, 04:34 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProperBimmer View Post
FWD and competitor for the CLA.....my god has it really come to this garbage?
It's a big market segment as far as luxury automakers go. Audi has sold up to 35K current generation A3's per year in the US and MB up to 29k CLA's in a year. Those sales numbers would represent 15% of all BMW passenger US car sales for 2018 so you can understand why they may want to take a share of that untapped market. We all love the M cars but it's the bread and butter cars for the masses that pay the bills. Some of you have such unreasonable expectations of automakers and I wonder if you have any understanding of the automotive industry or big business in general as niche cars don't pay the bills.
Agree with everything you said, it's just a damn shame the "pure" 2 series is now bastardized for the masses. But yeah I get it, all that shit pays the bills
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      03-22-2019, 05:40 PM   #121
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This car will be huge in North America.
It's a shrunken version (looks-wise) of the forthcoming Gran Coupe of THE 8.
The prototype disguises add a lot of visual heaviness, underneath it's well formed, dynamic and effective.
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      03-22-2019, 05:49 PM   #122
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I honestly have thought all the ///M cars since the E36 M3 have been too fat and powerful for real world fun. I have been buying from the standard model range since because I can still get a 200+ hp RWD car with a manual. THAT segment is what is dying here. Inexpensive RWD, manual transmission fun cars. The whole reason I got into buying used BMWs.
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      03-22-2019, 07:26 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
You could, and you'd have a 20 year old car, with 20 year old tech. If you want something RWD in that size today, you can get a Cadillac ATS, and... that's about it. But you better get it fast, because it's being discontinued due to poor sales, partly because the car was so much less practical (i.e. "smaller") than all its competitors, even though it was strong dynamically. The same thing happened with the original X1, which if it existed today in that form side by side with the current X1 would get HAMMERED sales-wise not only by the current X1 but by the Q3, XC40, etc., because they're so much more practical. Like it or not, practicality is important in small sedans, hatches, and SUV's, or people would just buy coupes (which BMW does, in fact, still make in RWD).

I get it. I own that 20 year old technology cause nothing has prompted me to move. everyone is building trucks, but the other manufacturers still have held onto their iconic models. the 911 is still the 911 in form factor, though the price tag has gone up, you could say the value proposition has increased accordingly.

To many of us, BMW's core value proposition was the small sedan, the E30-E46 4 door that dominated Car and Driver's top ten list for *decades.* That was BMW's soul. a reasonably practical car that yuppies could use to impress their neighbors and drive four to dinner, but that could be driven on the track on weekends. It was a wonderful combination of attributes. You didn't need an impractical sports car, cause you could chase them down in your 'family car' on the track (BTDT). Now that fun little package only comes with two doors. If you want four doors, you need to buy what amounts to a 5 series.

I understand the model run lengths are short. I'm saying if the M2 had 4 doors it would have a lot more sales because it would have a more practical side to it. I'd have been there day one.

Enough, I'll yield to progress.

Last edited by marcva; 03-22-2019 at 08:08 PM..
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      03-23-2019, 04:28 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by marcva View Post
I get it. I own that 20 year old technology cause nothing has prompted me to move. everyone is building trucks, but the other manufacturers still have held onto their iconic models. the 911 is still the 911 in form factor, though the price tag has gone up, you could say the value proposition has increased accordingly.
A 911 is still a 911 (just like the 3 series is still a 3 series), but the 911 from 20 years ago is as long as a current generation (718) Cayman/Boxter, which - no longer have an inline 6 engine...
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      03-23-2019, 06:56 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
A 911 is still a 911 (just like the 3 series is still a 3 series), but the 911 from 20 years ago is as long as a current generation (718) Cayman/Boxter, which - no longer have an inline 6 engine...
No Porsche ever had an inline 6 as far as I know
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      03-23-2019, 09:44 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
the US will get an xdrive version with 300hp.

people already hating on this fwd for no reason.

Half the people commenting are not even going to buy one anyway.

Im hoping it has a liftback and not just a tiny trunk opening. This is the perfect replacement for my long gone but not forgotten E46 sedan.

turbo 4, 300hp, awd, 30mpg.. whats the hate in that?
The BMW rabbit advertisement comes to mind if you want BMW themselves to criticize this
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      03-24-2019, 10:23 AM   #127
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Remember when GM had too many brands and models with little diffentiation and had to file for bankruptcy protection? When there’s a down turn in the economy BMW will really feel the pain (and everyone else who offers a crazy long list of product lines).

Been a loyal customer of BMW for 15 years but my experience with them with my last car, how the 3 series fell off top 10 list for first time in 20 years, and there are way too many models to keep up with (and most are fugly like X2), I simply moved to Porsche. Sad to say but VW, Audi, MB, etc. are all making cars that I’d be more interested in than BMW. What is going on at BMW? Does no one there see what they’re doing wrong? It’s similar to when a company suddenly tightens its belt AFTER something doesn’t go according to plans when many have been warning them of the same damn thing BEFORE it went wrong. Listening is key; that’s why we have 2 ears and 1 mouth.
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      03-27-2019, 10:11 AM   #128
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