Which Will You Buy: 1M vs M3 vs Z4M

[///M1]

Originally Posted by Robert

Cayman owners have long complained Porsche purposely under powers the car to protect 911.

Underpowered and badly geared to skew 0-62 and quarter mile numbers in the 911's favor...

[Robert]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I have to agree...and BMW won't let the 1M be "better", because the M3 is their best car, IMO...

The 1M will be a little lighter, have some additional HP over the 135--but have much better suspension, wider tires, LSD, and the like....don't see it as being an M3 killer--BMW won't do that to themselves....

Not necessarily impossible. 3 series is best selling BMW model, why did they make the 1 series as fast if not faster using the same engine? Because there's definite segmentation between the two line. People who wants a larger platform will buy the 3 series. 1 series was never meant to cannibalize 3 series sales. It's about expanding the BMW down market. Same can be said for 1M vs M3.

Another point is the M coupe. It has always been the faster more purist car than M3 employing the same power plant but lighter on its feet. The M3 is not the best BMW, instead it's the most well known. Given the two, it's possible BMW will make 1M as capable as the M3. People who jumps from M3 to 1M never needed the backseat anyways. And if they are going to stop buy a BMW M3 because it's no longer the fastest, they should have done so a long time ago because M coupe/Z4M has been faster. Since what they don't know won't hurt them it's taking a big assumption to say they will realize 1M is just as fast.

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by Robert

Cayman owners have long complained Porsche purposely under powers the car to protect 911.

You're right, they have, and they are definitely right to do so in my view. The Cayman and Boxster chassis' can handle more power than they currently have.

But really, who'd buy a 911 if Porsche brought out 'high' powered Caymans? Not anyone who test drove both anyway..

1M owners may have a similarly placed smug future where they know they have the 'better' car.

[HBspeed]

What I don't understand in relation to the cayman/911 dilemma is there is no basic difference between the 1 series and 3 series other than size. There is no reason to protect the 3 series other than its name which is arbitrary. If you showed someone in the 80's or 90's (pre-e46) a picture of a current 1 series and 3 series, which do you think they would assume is the 3 series?

If the 1 series were renamed 3 series, and the 3 series became the 5 series all the way up to the 7 series becoming the 9 series what difference would it make other than name? In reality the 1 series M has become the new M3 for all intents and purposes because the M3 has since its inception always been the smallest 2/4 door sports sedan BMW makes.

[MrRoboto]

^^^Agree.

The one is what the three was.

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

^^^Agree.

The one is what the three was.

This is exactly what I think as well...

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I have to agree...and BMW won't let the 1M be "better", because the M3 is their best car, IMO...

The 1M will be a little lighter, have some additional HP over the 135--but have much better suspension, wider tires, LSD, and the like....don't see it as being an M3 killer--BMW won't do that to themselves....

My guess is it will be more fun to drive than the M3, but sport inferior performance on objective measures like 1/4th mile time and lap times on most tracks.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by niuniu

You're right, they have, and they are definitely right to do so in my view. The Cayman and Boxster chassis' can handle more power than they currently have.

But really, who'd buy a 911 if Porsche brought out 'high' powered Caymans? Not anyone who test drove both anyway..

1M owners may have a similarly placed smug future where they know they have the 'better' car.

I'll bet if they were priced comparably, the VAST majority of Porsche buyers would opt for the 911 over the Cayman every time, even if the Cayman sported an identical power/weight ratio.

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

I'll bet if they were priced comparably, the VAST majority of Porsche buyers would opt for the 911 over the Cayman every time, even if the Cayman sported an identical power/weight ratio.

Only because they're conditioned through years of exposure to the 911. A decade on, they'd buy the Cayman and scratch their heads wondering why Porsche still make the inferior chass'ied 911 I'd bet.

[Fuerza]

Originally Posted by Robert

Not necessarily impossible. 3 series is best selling BMW model, why did they make the 1 series as fast if not faster using the same engine? Because there's definite segmentation between the two line. People who wants a larger platform will buy the 3 series. 1 series was never meant to cannibalize 3 series sales. It's about expanding the BMW down market. Same can be said for 1M vs M3.

Another point is the M coupe. It has always been the faster more purist car than M3 employing the same power plant but lighter on its feet. The M3 is not the best BMW, instead it's the most well known. Given the two, it's possible BMW will make 1M as capable as the M3. People who jumps from M3 to 1M never needed the backseat anyways. And if they are going to stop buy a BMW M3 because it's no longer the fastest, they should have done so a long time ago because M coupe/Z4M has been faster. Since what they don't know won't hurt them it's taking a big assumption to say they will realize 1M is just as fast.

The Z4M is a outdated platform just like the E46M3. Both Z4M roadster and M Coupe post lower Nurburgring lap times than the E92 M3. The only car other BMW's that beat the E92 M3 is the E46 M3 CSL and the E92 M3 GTR.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Adgar

The Z4M is a outdated platform just like the E46M3. Both Z4M roadster and M Coupe post lower Nurburgring lap times than the E92 M3. The only car other BMW's that beat the E92 M3 is the E46 M3 CSL and the E92 M3 GTR.

You have to compare apples to apples. If BMW is so adamant to protect M3 halo, why did it introduce M coupe that was faster than E46M3? A new M coupe based on current Z4-35i is not entirely out of question. If people want it BMW will build it.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Adgar

The Z4M is a outdated platform just like the E46M3. Both Z4M roadster and M Coupe post lower Nurburgring lap times than the E92 M3. The only car other BMW's that beat the E92 M3 is the E46 M3 CSL and the E92 M3 GTR.

Outdated?...just because it's doesnt have all gizmos and looks older that it is outdated....Id still rather own an E46 M3 over a 135I or the new M1

[Fuerza]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Outdated?...just because it's doesnt have all gizmos and looks older that it is outdated....Id still rather own an E46 M3 over a 135I or the new M1

By outdated I meant that it is no longer in production and it shouldn't be used in the comparision of this poll.

I own and love my E46 M3. The 1M has my attention if it is something special. I bought my M3 used and have to live with the orginal owners choices on what it is equiped with.

Give me a 1M, with, DCT, a carbon fiber roof, red or black leather interior with carbon leather trim, jet black outer, navigation, heated seats and all the iPhone/iPod gizmos and I'm sold.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Adgar

Give me a 1M, with, DCT, a carbon fiber roof, red or black leather interior with carbon leather trim, jet black outer, navigation, heated seats and all the iPhone/iPod gizmos and I'm sold.

...its all up to you but an M car shouldn't be about options, colors, navigation crap etc......I don't care for a carbon fiber roof I find them overated.....I rather buy an E90 M3 then E92 M3 cause its nicer....and I like the savings (moneywise). Different strokes for different folks.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by Robert

You have to compare apples to apples. If BMW is so adamant to protect M3 halo, why did it introduce M coupe that was faster than E46M3? A new M coupe based on current Z4-35i is not entirely out of question. If people want it BMW will build it.

Given how the last M Coupe sold, I wouldn't bet on it.

People didn't/don't want a "raw" BMW, at least not in sufficient numbers to make it very marketable. Too many people would opt for a Porsche with more cachet, or a Corvette with more performance.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

Given how the last M Coupe sold, I wouldn't bet on it.

People didn't/don't want a "raw" BMW, at least not in sufficient numbers to make it very marketable. Too many people would opt for a Porsche with more cachet, or a Corvette with more performance.

I am in that camp. I lean towards buying a used caymans than 1M. Balance over power for me. There's nothing one can do move 1M's engine to behind the driver at a reasonable cost.

Reliability wise, I think Porsche is also a hair higher.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

Given how the last M Coupe sold, I wouldn't bet on it.

People didn't/don't want a "raw" BMW, at least not in sufficient numbers to make it very marketable. Too many people would opt for a Porsche with more cachet, or a Corvette with more performance.

I don't agree that people don't want a raw BMW. And I owned the most recent M Coupe.

What people want is a raw BMW that has a backseat. BMW has no desire apparently to be competitive with Porsche or Chevy in the 2 seater category. BMW is most known for its 2/4 door sports sedans, and that is what people want in a raw BMW.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

I don't agree that people don't want a raw BMW. And I owned the most recent M Coupe.

What people want is a raw BMW that has a backseat. BMW has no desire apparently to be competitive with Porsche or Chevy in the 2 seater category. BMW is most known for its 2/4 door sports sedans, and that is what people want in a raw BMW.

Raw Bmw not Raw car.....people tend to forget about this....Bmw never made raw cars.....

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

I don't agree that people don't want a raw BMW. And I owned the most recent M Coupe.

What people want is a raw BMW that has a backseat. BMW has no desire apparently to be competitive with Porsche or Chevy in the 2 seater category. BMW is most known for its 2/4 door sports sedans, and that is what people want in a raw BMW.

Don't get me wrong, I love my M Coupe, just saying that there isn't a huge market for that sort of car with a BMW badge.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

Don't get me wrong, I love my M Coupe, just saying that there isn't a huge market for that sort of car with a BMW badge.

I agree that the market is small for such a 2 seater. My point is if they made an equally focused sports car that was a small 2 door sedan they would sell.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

I don't agree that people don't want a raw BMW. And I owned the most recent M Coupe.

What people want is a raw BMW that has a backseat. BMW has no desire apparently to be competitive with Porsche or Chevy in the 2 seater category. BMW is most known for its 2/4 door sports sedans, and that is what people want in a raw BMW.

I agree, there are people looking for a raw BMW with a backseat because it can be a best-of-both-worlds drivers car. Something that performs well on a twisty mountain road or track, but can also seat four people when necessary.

Originally Posted by E82tt6

Don't get me wrong, I love my M Coupe, just saying that there isn't a huge market for that sort of car with a BMW badge.

I love the M Coupe as well, but, yeah, I think people shopping for two seat BMWs tend to prefer the roadster format. Now if there were a two seat Z / M Coupe closer in price to say a 370Z, I think BMW could attract a new, possibly younger demographic. I speculate that this is what BMW is thinking with the future Z2 Coupe / Roadster.

[ESC OFF]

Originally Posted by Robert

Cayman owners have long complained Porsche purposely under powers the car to protect 911.

Owning a CaymanS (slightly modded about 325-330HP) and a 135i with just an exhaust upgrade, it's really fun to compare. Both cars are fun yet underpowered, the caymanS handling is second to no other car at that price range, performance wise (stock) they are pretty equal, Brakes go to the Porsche, ride comfort the 135i. The Porsche has a load of storage space but with the rear seats folded of course the 135i wins. I get better MPG with the CaymanS. All in all If I had only one car that I used all year long as my DD the 135i or the new M varient would still be my choice.