Another one bites the dust! Value of M3 with a blown engine?

[Aktavate]

Originally Posted by codinge90

I'm laughing at how many people are astonished that OP had stock bearings at 122k. Do people not understand that these cars have been around for over 10 years and a lot of people daily their cars meaning there is a probably high percentage of m3's with 100k+ miles and stock bearings since the majority of owners are not on these forums and don't change their bearings. Yes, bearing issues exist but don't bash OP for not changing the bearings lol, it's not like the rate of failure increases to 20% after a certain mileage.

If the failures are due to wear, and wear increases with use...

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by Redd

You guys are getting screwed on labor in the States. I pay $800 to change rod bearings here in Malaysia, parts and labour included.

Yeah but aren’t the mosquitoes bad there?

[roastbeef]

i really think that oil analysis is inconclusive in determining bearing wear.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i really think that oil analysis is inconclusive in determining bearing wear.

Agreed.

Seemingly worthless even with a few consecutive reports.

I had one done. 32k miles on the car and everything was well below the avg range.

Bearings looked like someone took a grinder to them...

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by timothy2001

Yeah but aren’t the mosquitoes bad there?

What does it cost to ship an M3 over there from the US?

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Redd

You guys are getting screwed on labor in the States. I pay $800 to change rod bearings here in Malaysia, parts and labour included.

$800 for parts and labor? Ain't happening unless it's $1 for the labor. Which may be the case for all I know, but you ain't spending less than $799 on parts.

[GotV8?]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

$800 for parts and labor? Ain't happening unless it's $1 for the labor. Which may be the case for all I know, but you ain't spending less than $799 on parts.

agree ... parts alone are that much no matter what part of the country even if its a DIY.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by timothy2001

Yeah but aren’t the mosquitoes bad there?

Win some, lose some. 😂

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

No one here buys life insurance, right? The chance of dying prematurely is less than 1%.

Not the same thing at all. Blowing my M3's engine would cost me $14k a single time, while dying would cost my family more than that every month, yet I don't spend $2500/month on life insurance.

Believe it or not folks, spending $2500 to avoid a potential $14k repair is not good math.

Originally Posted by codinge90

I'm laughing at how many people are astonished that OP had stock bearings at 122k. Do people not understand that these cars have been around for over 10 years and a lot of people daily their cars meaning there is a probably high percentage of m3's with 100k+ miles and stock bearings since the majority of owners are not on these forums and don't change their bearings. Yes, bearing issues exist but don't bash OP for not changing the bearings lol, it's not like the rate of failure increases to 20% after a certain mileage.

It actually reminds me of the 996 forum on Rennlist--people are scared to death of the IMS bearing taking out their engine, but when you go out into the real world it's amazing how many owners have no idea what you're even referring to.

FWIW, my the IMS on my 996 blew and took out my engine, and I'm still not convinced that I should spend the money on RBs. Replaced the N20 4-cylinder in my wife's X3 last month due to timing chain problem, but that still doesn't mean it automatically makes sense to do the RBs.

Originally Posted by hockey21

Threads like this make me feel less bad about 700 per Month to lease an f80.... sorry to hear

I'd agree with you except the sound of the S65 alone is worth $700/month over the F80.

Originally Posted by wbM3

I'm mostly astonished a person ON this forum would risk it well past 100K. If you've been on here any bit of time you've seen the pictures. Much like the RS4 if you can't afford $2K+ maintenance bills then maybe a V8 super saloon is not car for you.

I don't know that the E9x is a 'super saloon', but you have to remember that few members post to tell everyone their engine is OK, but every member posts when they have a problem.

[Spun Crankhub]

Originally Posted by Redd

You guys are getting screwed on labor in the States. I pay $800 to change rod bearings here in Malaysia, parts and labour included.

Price is dictated by factors such as geographic location, demand, competition, and cost of doing business, therefore your US vs Southeast Asia post is an apples to oranges comparison.
There is no way I can walk into a shop in San Francisco and ask for the price a buddy paid for the service at a shop that is 8,000 miles away.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

Not the same thing at all. Blowing my M3's engine would cost me $14k a single time, while dying would cost my family more than that every month, yet I don't spend $2500/month on life insurance.

Believe it or not folks, spending $2500 to avoid a potential $14k repair is not good math.



It actually reminds me of the 996 forum on Rennlist--people are scared to death of the IMS bearing taking out their engine, but when you go out into the real world it's amazing how many owners have no idea what you're even referring to.

FWIW, my the IMS on my 996 blew and took out my engine, and I'm still not convinced that I should spend the money on RBs. Replaced the N20 4-cylinder in my wife's X3 last month due to timing chain problem, but that still doesn't mean it automatically makes sense to do the RBs.



I'd agree with you except the sound of the S65 alone is worth $700/month over the F80.



I don't know that the E9x is a 'super saloon', but you have to remember that few members post to tell everyone their engine is OK, but every member posts when they have a problem.

I completely disagree with everything you've stated. How much was his car worth with a good engine. How much is it worth now? Based on the specs it was probably at least $20k now it worth basically nothing. So you tell me if spending $2500 isn't worth it.

Ok. So he spends $14K to put and used engine in the car. He's still going to have do the bearings. Unless he's willing to roll the dice again. What if the used engine is crap. He might get his money back but he won't get his money back on the labor to install it.

It's a moot point. He's stated that he thought it would never happen to him. Well it did. It up to each individual owner if they want to spend the money or not. He decided not to do that and he'll have to live with the consequences.

I guess I'm very risk averse.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i really think that oil analysis is inconclusive in determining bearing wear.

then how do you determine if the rod bearings are about to fail? and where is "usually" the weakest point in the rod bearings?

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Honda

then how do you determine if the rod bearings are about to fail?

You don't.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

I completely disagree with everything you've stated. How much was his car worth with a good engine. How much is it worth now? Based on the specs it was probably at least $20k now it worth basically nothing. So you tell me if spending $2500 isn't worth it.

The value of the car in running vs non-running condition isn't relevant. The only thing that matters is the $14k figure to make the car whole again.

Ok. So he spends $14K to put and used engine in the car. He's still going to have do the bearings. Unless he's willing to roll the dice again. What if the used engine is crap. He might get his money back but he won't get his money back on the labor to install it.

Right, anything can happen to any car. What if he gets the most well cared for S65 the world has ever seen and it lasts him 300k miles?

It's a moot point. He's stated that he thought it would never happen to him. Well it did. It up to each individual owner if they want to spend the money or not. He decided not to do that and he'll have to live with the consequences.

I guess I'm very risk averse.

And that's OK to be risk averse, but it doesn't change the math.

[Banana Hammock]

Originally Posted by Honda

then how do you determine if the rod bearings are about to fail? and where is "usually" the weakest point in the rod bearings?

I went by the vast amount of knowledge on the forums and the data collected through hundreds of motors to decide when to have the bearings pulled and replace them while that was happening. 60k seemed to be about the average but there were people pulling them at 30k with signs of wear but at the same time there are some who go as far as 100k. I decided to play it safe.

For me, the weakest point was a deep score on one of the bearings near the center.

[serranot]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

And that's OK to be risk averse, but it doesn't change the math.

So what are you saying is the "math?"

Your "math" seems to make as an assumption that nothing will happen. if it does happen, your conclusion fails.

There is no right answer. You make your conclusion that because it's a 1% or whatever chance of happening it's not worth $2500. Perhaps for you it makes sense; for others it may not. It's insurance, not an investment. Too many people seem to believe that somehow if they pay into insurance they should get something back. And they would be wrong.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

The value of the car in running vs non-running condition isn't relevant. The only thing that matters is the $14k figure to make the car whole again.

Really, losing a couple thousand dollars is irrelevant?



Right, anything can happen to any car. What if he gets the most well cared for S65 the world has ever seen and it lasts him 300k miles?

Like Unicorns and Fairy Dust.



And that's OK to be risk averse, but it doesn't change the math.

Based on you arguments people shouldn't maintain their cars. The math just doesn't work. If the engine in your car fails and you can't get to work it doesn't matter.

I doesn't matter that your car is now worth less than half what it did before engine failure.

I'm sure if he invested that $2500 he would have made $14K and could easily cover the cost of the engine. Yeah, even if he does install a used engine the value of the car has been diminished.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

Based on you arguments people shouldn't maintain their cars. The math just doesn't work. If the engine in your car fails and you can't get to work it doesn't matter.

I doesn't matter that your car is now worth less than half what it did before engine failure.

I'm sure if he invested that $2500 he would have made $14K and could easily cover the cost of the engine the deceased value of his car with a used engine. Yeah, even if he does install a used engine the value of the car has been diminished.

Technically there "could" be no diminishment. If you have 75k miles on your car and you replace the engine with a 50k mile engine then why would the value go down? Due to the perception that it's not the original motor? I'm not sure why any of us would care what S65 motor is in the car, especially one with less miles on it. The other thing is I'll bet there are many vehicles out there running with a secondary motor and the owners are not even aware. There is no Vin# on the engine. There may be a serial number of some sorts stamped on the block but I am not aware of anything that differentiates that an engine belongs to a particular car. So In theory it would be easy enough to blow an engine, swap in another one day and not say a word about it. There are no identifying markers to alert anyone that the engine wasn't born there. And again, in essence it really doesn't matter where the engine was born. All S65's were created equal. In no way am I suggesting that one should mask the fact that it's not the original motor, I only say that someone could.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by serranot

So what are you saying is the "math?"

Your "math" seems to make as an assumption that nothing will happen. if it does happen, your conclusion fails.

There is no right answer. You make your conclusion that because it's a 1% or whatever chance of happening it's not worth $2500. Perhaps for you it makes sense; for others it may not. It's insurance, not an investment. Too many people seem to believe that somehow if they pay into insurance they should get something back. And they would be wrong.

The math is spending $2500 to avoid the possibility of spending $14k later.

I don't disagree with you that it makes different sense to everyone, I only disagree with the notion that one just HAS to have the RBs replaced.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

Based on you arguments people shouldn't maintain their cars. The math just doesn't work. If the engine in your car fails and you can't get to work it doesn't matter.

Hmm, no. The vast majority of cars have probably not had the RBs replaced and probably won't experience a failure. Avoiding standard maintenance will pretty quickly result in problems in almost every car.

FWIW, I have all the maintenance done that BMW advises.

I doesn't matter that your car is now worth less than half what it did before engine failure.

I'm sure if he invested that $2500 he would have made $14K and could easily cover the cost of the engine. Yeah, even if he does install a used engine the value of the car has been diminished.

I don't know that replacing an engine automatically decreases the value of a car.

[DSilk]

The reason that the math doesn't work is that:

1. Not all M3 rod bearings are failing. In fact it is a relatively small percentage that do.

2. Replacement bearings are not failure-proof either.

[Honda]

Originally Posted by pasghetti

I went by the vast amount of knowledge on the forums and the data collected through hundreds of motors to decide when to have the bearings pulled and replace them while that was happening. 60k seemed to be about the average but there were people pulling them at 30k with signs of wear but at the same time there are some who go as far as 100k. I decided to play it safe.

For me, the weakest point was a deep score on one of the bearings near the center.

If the weakest point is center of bearing then we should see that in oil analysis reports however some indicated here (including roastbeef) that oil analysis doesn't detect bearing problem and thats why I am asking where is the weak point (worst pint of clearance?)

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

I don't know that replacing an engine automatically decreases the value of a car.

It certainly can, and in my experience it has. It would at least cause a slower sale. An informed buyer would want to know why the engine was replaced (neglect? poor maintenance?) but also information about the donor car and its ownership/miles/maintenance history, who did the replacement, were new RB's installed, etc as they're now assessing details of two cars... Often as a result they'll want to negotiate a lower price. Many buyers would just keep looking to avoid a car with "stories".