[Bavarian Tech]

Originally Posted by mike-y

is the N52 an open or closed deck design?

Open

N52 summary

Block- Split design... Aluminium/Silicon insert, then magnesium is cast inseparably around insert
Crank-Cast Iron
Cylinder Head- Aluminum
Pistons- Aluminum
Value Cover-Magnesium or Plastic
Camshafts-Hollow steel

[Gavin@MMW]

Originally Posted by msbc721

Straight from BMW
"The cylinder bore consists of an Alusil structure, there are no iron cylinder liners as with previous
6 cylinder designs. The cylinder bores cannot be machined, however this design still allows for
planing of the deck surface if needed."

Alusil is a type of aluminum, there are no iron sleeves, but it does have aluminum, then the magnesium is cast around it.

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

It would cost me about $20K to get a 335 to where my 330 is. NOT going to do it.

Yeah no, unless you plan on selling every mod dirt cheap and rebuying them all at retail prices while paying a dealership mechanic to put them on, doubt it.

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by msbc721

Open

N52 summary

Block- Split design... Aluminium/Silicon insert, then magnesium is cast inseparably around insert
Crank-Cast Iron
Cylinder Head- Aluminum
Pistons- Aluminum
Value Cover-Magnesium or Plastic
Camshafts-Hollow steel

if it's open deck, you could probably have that insert cut out and press iron sleeves in it's place. That's exactly what they did when I had my honda block resleeved.

Though, with low boost, it's probably not necessary.

[Minefield]

Originally Posted by C ///M

And what am I supposed to do exactly?? In order to get an N55 engine, I have to get a new X3. First, I don't want a new X3 because its way too big. Second, I have a fully loaded M-Sport E83. In order to get the equivalent in an F25, I need to spend $60,000, or nearly $40,000 more than I did for my 20k mile '07. The way I see it, if I spend half that on modding my current car, well gee, there's a lot I can do for $20,000.

Just give it a rest already...

The people who should give it a rest are those who didn't get the n54/55 and think they can engineer their own turbos for their NA's. And this is coming from an NA owner.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by AiyahPK

The people who should give it a rest are those who didn't get the n54/55 and think they can engineer their own turbos for their NA's. And this is coming from an NA owner.

it would cost significantly more money to turbo a 328i/330i than just trading for a 335i. plus, the reliability and performance of a turbo'd N/A motor would be pretty low for all the money you'd have to sink into it.


if you bought an N/A 3-series, just keep it N/A or sell/trade for a 335i. not worth it otherwise

[CobraMarty]

The cost to place all the extras/upgrades I have on the 328 onto the 335 plus the cost of the 335 and having to sell the 328 and find a non-molested 335 same color, interior mileage, etc is just not a financially or a logical option.

There are plenty of turbo kits out there for previous generation 328s and 330s already 'engineered' and work. A $4-5000.00 turbo or supercharger really is a viable option. Why did all those 328 owners put turbos on their cars?

Just keep your 335 and your financial advice to yourself. If the 335 is so great, why are all those owners doing upgrades to their engines? Don't answer. Start your own thread.

Why don't you sell your 335 and get a real performance car- the M3.

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

The cost to place all the extras/upgrades I have on the 328 onto the 335 plus the cost of the 335 and having to sell the 328 and find a non-molested 335 same color, interior mileage, etc is just not a financially or a logical option.

The cost of labour for putting a turbocharger will well exceed all of the labour to switch your current mods. It is illogical to turbo or SC a 328 unless you work at a shop and get labour free.

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

There are plenty of turbo kits out there for previous generation 328s and 330s already 'engineered' and work. A $4-5000.00 turbo or supercharger really is a viable option. Why did all those 328 owners put turbos on their cars?

Because a turbo option wasn't available from the factory. How many people do you see turbo'ing a base level impreza, lancer, NT eclipse, stealth, etc?

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

If the 335 is so great, why are all those owners doing upgrades to their engines?

You are misinformed. There is literally 1 engine upgrade available(ported head by PAW) for the N54 unless you are speaking of turbo modifications which are there to make gobs of power.

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Why don't you sell your 335 and get a real performance car- the M3.

Again misinformed and pulling at straws. The only way an M3 will be faster than a 335i with $600-700 in mods is with a $10k supercharger.

[CobraMarty]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

Because a turbo option wasn't available from the factory. How many people do you see turbo'ing a base level impreza, lancer, NT eclipse, stealth, etc?

How many honda's came turbocharged from the factory. Many do turbocharge their stock engines.


Bla, Bla, Bla. Please keep to the title of the thread. Please stop contaminating this thread with your verbiage.

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

How many honda's came turbocharged from the factory. Many do turbocharge their stock engines.

Exactly my point. People turbo Honda JUST BECAUSE they isn't a model available turbocharged from the factory. People DON'T turbo base lancers BECAUSE there is a turbo lancer available from the factory.

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Bla, Bla, Bla. Please keep to the title of the thread. Please stop contaminating this thread with your verbiage.

Just correcting some misplaced notions that you seem keen in providing. No offense meant.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

The cost to place all the extras/upgrades I have on the 328 onto the 335 plus the cost of the 335 and having to sell the 328 and find a non-molested 335 same color, interior mileage, etc is just not a financially or a logical option.

There are plenty of turbo kits out there for previous generation 328s and 330s already 'engineered' and work. A $4-5000.00 turbo or supercharger really is a viable option. Why did all those 328 owners put turbos on their cars?

Just keep your 335 and your financial advice to yourself. If the 335 is so great, why are all those owners doing upgrades to their engines? Don't answer. Start your own thread.

Why don't you sell your 335 and get a real performance car- the M3.

it's your money, was just trying to warn you. you'll spend over $10k when everything is said and done, if you do it correctly. and you may have over 300 whp.

a 335i with less than $2k in mods will be around 400whp. perfectly reliable, too. that's my setup, at least.

so, that's why i was saying to sell your 328i and get a 335i. much cheaper overall, and more reliable.

why would i get an m3? less hp, less torque, less mpg....i'll hold off until the next m3 (factory turbocharged) comes out. that will be a different story.

[CobraMarty]

No offense meant or taken. Thanks for your opinions and ideas. We can agree to disagree on our thoughts and ideas.

There are many turbo and supercharger kits out there for between $4-6,000.00, not 10k, and there could be one also for the N52 engine one day. That's all.

[bpas328xi]

Hey guys. Stop beating a dead horse here. Although, I have enjoyed reading the pointless "buy a 335" comments.

I am extremely happy with my 328xi and have no desire to sell it, get a 335, and dump more money into it to bring it up to the level that my 328 is currently at and still be unhappy with it being a 335 and all it's problems. (I'm partial to the way my rear bumper looks and where my exhaust tips are)

In the end, it's my car and my money. I'm going to do what I want to it regardless of what you 335 elitists say.

My end goal for hp is nowhere near as lofty as yours. I only want 300awhp for now and I'll be extremely happy with that for years to come.

And I'll probably do the install in the driveway with the help of my dad since we did the exact same thing when we supercharged the white F150 I posted about a while ago.

This is a forum for enthusiasts. It is not a free-for-all flame fest.

ALL HAIL BMW!!!!!!!!!!!!


So. With all that said, here's a pic to emphasize my point.

[bpas328xi]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

No offense meant or taken. Thanks for your opinions and ideas. We can agree to disagree on our thoughts and ideas.

There are many turbo and supercharger kits out there for between $4-6,000.00, not 10k, and there could be one also for the N52 engine one day. That's all.

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

There are many turbo and supercharger kits out there for between $4-6,000.00, not 10k, and there could be one also for the N52 engine one day.

Believe the delta between the 4-6k you quote and 10k he quotes is labour as you have to install downpipes, turbo oil/coolant lines(with mounts in oil pan etc), exhaust manifold, turbo, intercooler, all the piping, fabbing all the custom mounts, tune the car, possibly upgrade clutch/fuel injectors/fuel pump.

Not only is a SC setup of equivalent quality $2-3k cheaper, it will be much easier to install.

[andrey_gta]

Subscribed!!

I didnt know the n55 is this much similar to the n52

[bryce]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

Believe the delta between the 4-6k you quote and 10k he quotes is labour as you have to install downpipes, turbo oil/coolant lines(with mounts in oil pan etc), exhaust manifold, turbo, intercooler, all the piping, fabbing all the custom mounts, tune the car, possibly upgrade clutch/fuel injectors/fuel pump.

Not only is a SC setup of equivalent quality $2-3k cheaper, it will be much easier to install.

turbo builds costs signicantly more than the $4-6k for the kit alone.


regardless, good luck in your endeavors, if you decide to go forward with trying to boost the n52.

[atown88]

For those who say its too expensive to bring their 328 to 335 level as far as exterior mods go, couldn't that argument be put to rest by finding the same e90 or e92 with the same color and just moving the parts over?

Idk, I'm all for upgrading the n52 but it just seems like a lot of work when there seems to be much greater potential by moving cars. I have a feeling those who get a taste of 300hp from 230-250 will want more eventually.

But hopefully you guys can figure it out. Open up some doors for a lot of people.

[Raine]

It's called, get a F30 - N20.

[SavvyByNature]

Ugh... I've yet to wrap my head around buying a 4-cyl luxury vehicle. Audi does it, but Audi isn't BMW.

FI'ing a N52 may be difficult, but it is still a worthy effort none the less.

And yes... the 335i would be a easy upgrade w/o the hassle, but why take the easy route when you can have some fun and be unique?

Also, I have the feeling that if Gavin or someone is able to FI the N52 successfully (300-350hp), that it'll be more reliable than a 335i. There is a reason they went from the N54 (great to mod), to the N55 (not as great, N52 based w/o mag block).

[Ricky1933]

+1

[abenglaoshi]

Originally Posted by JJenE92

As I understand it the N52/N51's internals aren't reinforced enough to handle turbos, supercharging is the only way we're going to get forced induction on this platform and even that seems like a pipe dream.

the piston rods in N52 engine, are actually forged, not sure if they're as strong as those in N54/N55 engines, but should be able take some boost,
and as I understand it, turbo or supercharging, what really matters is the PSI you're putting in to this engine,
some of the supercharger kits on the market, claimed 8psi w/o internal mods(which means 10.7CR), I think you'll be fine keeping pressure under 8psi,
actually the N55 engine has a CR of "just" 10.2, with ported pistons and thicker HD, you'll be able to drop your N52's CR to 10.2 or lower,
N55's real advantage is direct injection, which allows the new engine to run under psi, with a relatively high CR, but w/o knocking risk.
and that eliminates the turbo lag, improves the throttle response.
if you wanna turbo your N52 with the same PSI, same CR, premium fuel is your friend.
I think the main reason you don't see a lot of turbo kits for N52, is because of the turbo lag, and there's no much space left for a turbo charger, near the exhaust manifold. while the supercharger can be fixed near the intake manifold.

Hi, C ///M, N55 is an direct injection engine, so the difference between N52&N55 is slightly bigger than you thought, this won't be a plug and play modification certainly.
the head on N55 engine is physically different I'm pretty sure, the fuel nozzles stick directly into the combustion chambers,
so fuel injectors are not compatible,
camshaft, probably not, as well
ECU, same situation,

however I think the turbo+exhaust manifold should fit,
the studs may be interchangeable, and N55 studs probably are stronger, but you certainly wouldn't wanna use 2nd hand studs,
pistons, not sure about the pin diam., probably BMW had changed the design of this bit. if the pins are the same, should hv no problem converting N55 pistons into an N52. along side the strength advantage, N55 pistons shall provide slightly lower CR as well.

everybody is talking about the N54/N55 is "significantly stronger" than the N52, well, I'm wondering by how much?
most consider that BMW ditched the Mag block on N52, using all Aluminium blocks on N55, is because Magnesium is "not strong enough", at least that's what BMW would want us to believe. 30kgs heavier, 40 more hp, yeah~ the new engine is a great deal,
hvn't you wondered, probably this is actually because Magnesium is "not cost-efficient enough"

coz N52 block isn't all made of Magnesium,
the liners, actually the whole "inner block", including coolant ducts, are made of aluminium, same as the N55 engine.
10 years ago, BMW introduced the concept of "inner block", when they want us to know how advanced their N52 is, and this "inner block" is what really takes the combustion pressure.
N52 only employs Magnesium on the surroundings, mounting points, the support structure, I don't see why the N55 is "significantly stronger" than this,
just by replacing the "outer block" with an aluminium one?
the internals? yes probably are stronger,
the block? is the liner thicker & stronger now? different water duct? see the N55 employs the same open-deck design, unless BMW developed some really advanced aluminium alloy, otherwise I don't see why the N55 would hv a huge strength advantage over the N52 engines.

however, if you're looking for suggestion, I'd say, trade your car, get an 335i, it's just easier to mod,
FI mods? t seems most supercharger kits are quite expensive, and barely heard of turbo charging project/kit, even you can find a shop to turbo charge and tune your car, it won't be cheap. and could cause some unforeseen problems, you wouldn't want the source of power becomes the source of trouble.