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12-04-2015, 06:18 PM | #1 |
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M button and ECU dynamic response vs. WOT only
This is the best time of the year in the South-East when the air is cool but not close yet from frigid/icy temperatures the S65 packs a whole lot more of punch than in the summer months (for people with non FI modified stock engine).
Here is one combo that never ceases to amaze me : with all settings in normal mode accelerate moderately strongly (but not WOT) and then.. press the M button (set to activates Power Sport Plus mode). WOW !! It's *NOT* the same reaction of the engine than going all WOT in standard mode without switching electronically in mid acceleration. I know in theory it's supposed to be equivalent (it changes the throttle mapping) , but i think this does not account for the ECU brutal dynamic reaction as you switch mode *ELECTRONICALLY* 'on the fly' when you are already in some kind of moderate acceleration. I certainly can not get the same acceleration result if i don't use the M button in the middle of an acceleration. I can't imagine what a SC would feel like, but i don't need one, car feels like it has some freak power and it's all stock (2013 ZCP, picked up in Munich i am the only owner). PS : One thought crossed my mind, maybe it could be that going all WOT before any prior acceleration the DSC limits the power more intrusively than pressing the M button in mid-acceleration where traction is well established so that the DSC does not interfere. I'd have to try in MDM or DSC off to confirm. Last edited by Rajmun340; 12-04-2015 at 07:24 PM.. |
12-05-2015, 11:50 AM | #3 |
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Hitting m button simply opens tgrottle fully at less pedal depression so you are going from part throttle to full throttle by hitting m button mid throttle when you go from normal to sport
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12-05-2015, 02:50 PM | #4 | |
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At least in practice i feel a big difference. |
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12-05-2015, 04:10 PM | #5 |
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Here is a link to the "4th Generation M3 Introduction" technical manual.
You will need to login to view the manual. The MDrive details begin on page 18. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=204933 Enjoy |
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12-05-2015, 04:13 PM | #6 |
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I should try that sometime, but I pretty much always have the power button on.
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12-05-2015, 04:42 PM | #7 | |
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"The options determine how spontaneously the engine responds to actuation of the accelerator pedal. The maximum engine power is not changed. Using the power button in the center console, the driver can only choose between "Normal" and "Sport". "Sport Plus" is only available in the MDrive menu." |
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12-05-2015, 04:46 PM | #8 | |
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12-05-2015, 06:20 PM | #9 | |
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You guys are answering a highly technical question with marketing prospectus level answers (which i have those too, off course). 1 Overview of torque Manager 5 2 Basis of calculation sizes 8 3 torque calculation 8 4 Calculation lambda efficiencies 12 5 torque interface (CAN) 13 6 Interface for climate control and KSG 13 7 Interface to the ASC / DSC - request torque intervention 14 8 interface for ASC / DSC - feedback torque intervention 15 9 friction 16 10 drag torque 17 11 Maximum indicated torque 19 12 calculating desired torque 20 13 torque filter 21 14 dynamic filter at Wunschmomentgradienten 22 15 Bonanza filter 25 16 Dashpotfilter 25 17 engaging idle controller 26 18 torque limitations 26 19 torque limiter 27 20 Speed Limit 28 21 torques at katschädigenden dropouts 29 22 torques at collapse of Krafstoffdrucks 29 23 torque limit for noise reduction 29 24 torque reserve 30 25 torque reserve for Katheizfunktion 30 26 torque reserve (not implemented in EVT!) With strong steering inputs 32 27 limiting the torque reserve 32 28 torque intervention filling path 33 29 efficiency correction 34 30 Calculation of wi 34 31 Calculation of control edges 35 32 torque intervention ignition path 35 33 Calculation ignition angle 36 14.1.Berechnung Optimal ignition 36 14.2.Berechnung Zündwinkelwirkungsgrade 37 14.2.1. minimum ignition angle 38 14.2.2.Basis ignition angle 38 14.2.3. Calculation ignition angle before engaging 38 14.2.4. Calculation ignition angle after intervention 38 14.2.5. Calculation Eingriffszündwinkel 39 14.3.Berechnung Normalized Zündhaken 41 34 monitoring torque calculation 43 35 hedge torque calculation 43 36 monitoring target torque to actual torque 43 37 monitoring target / actual torque over the entire operating range 44 38 monitoring target / actual torque at PWG Default = 0 44 39 Teilfeuerung with open clamping throttle 45 40 Administered data of torque manager 46 41 variables of torque manager 49 Last edited by Rajmun340; 12-05-2015 at 07:55 PM.. |
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12-05-2015, 07:31 PM | #11 | |
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google translated the table of content I may share if people try the comparison experiment i described and report their result objectively, no answers without trying it specifically on their car. Last edited by Rajmun340; 12-05-2015 at 07:53 PM.. |
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12-07-2015, 03:39 PM | #12 |
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I've often thought this but reconcile it to being difference between depressing the accelerator increasing the requested demand from x to z via y vs the power button which instantly shifts the requested torque to z without going via y. The maximum is the same but isn't another factor is the 'rate' of increased demand as well as absolute throttle position that determines how wide to open those throttle bodies?
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12-07-2015, 04:14 PM | #13 | |
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12-07-2015, 04:47 PM | #14 | |
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12-07-2015, 05:33 PM | #15 | |
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...the ECU will put the engine in a different set of parameters than doing it with the foot and from what i can see it's a better way to get the engine going hard. |
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12-07-2015, 05:34 PM | #16 | |
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12-09-2015, 06:28 AM | #18 |
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I used to run full M on but even in normal driving my mpg dropped to 12-14. Now I leave the car in sport by default (no affect on mpg, 17.5) then hit M when I need to feel more power (illusion I know, but the change in the dtc is real)
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12-10-2015, 01:20 PM | #19 |
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I never gave much thought of power or sport buttons on most NA cars until I got the M3. There's definitely a noticeable different in the responsiveness and feel of the car. Personally, I keep the car in standard mode until the oil warms up and then press the sport button. My seat of the pants interpretation is that the power button moves the torque curve back a little so that there's more mid range torque than the standard setting. The car definitely feels more beefy in at say, 3500 rpms than it does in the default mode. Having said that, the throttle is also more sensitive to input, so if I'm driving someone else in the car who is not a car person, I leave all the settings in default mode. It's a much smoother experience for the average person.
Having said that, I'd love to see a dyno that compares default and power mode to see if the power and/or torque are shifted to the left a bit. I'm sure someone has done this at some point, given how old our cars are. |
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12-10-2015, 07:40 PM | #20 | |
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12-10-2015, 10:24 PM | #21 | |
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The system does not stop at the throttle response. That is a common but short sighted view. |
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