[TouringPleb]

I don't normally get involved in politics on here but been thinking about this the last few days.

Is it time for another Brexit vote?

It's starting to become clear the Leave campaign broke spending limits by shuffling money around to cover their spending http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8066156.html

Even the Daily Mail is admitting that Putin's Russia was running a social media campaign generally in favour of Leave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...HQ-Moscow.html

Farrage has admitted the headline £350 million a week for the NHS was never a goer. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...was-a-mistake/

Plus nobody mentioned the possible 40-100 billion euros (depending on how right wing your media source is) to actually get out.

I'm thinking once an agreement is actually drawn up and we actually know what we are voting for, then it might be the time for a second referendum.

[AlanQS]

I suspect if we get to the end and we have a second referendum and we vote to stay we will get bent over the table again. Although they will want us to stay (they need our money) we will have put them through two years of mess and a price will be extracted - say goodbye to the rebate, for example?

I suspect we are too far down the road now to reverse our decision and get a positive outcome.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

I don't normally get involved in politics on here but been thinking about this the last few days.

Is it time for another Brexit vote?

It's starting to become clear the Leave campaign broke spending limits by shuffling money around to cover their spending http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8066156.html

Even the Daily Mail is admitting that Putin's Russia was running a social media campaign generally in favour of Leave http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...HQ-Moscow.html

Farrage has admitted the headline £350 million a week for the NHS was never a goer. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...was-a-mistake/

Plus nobody mentioned the possible 40-100 billion euros (depending on how right wing your media source is) to actually get out.

I'm thinking once an agreement is actually drawn up and we actually know what we are voting for, then it might be the time for a second referendum.

The problem is that idea would make sense, nothing makes sense anymore, Donald Trump is president of USA for fucks sake! The idiots are taking over.

[Rudz]

Seriously Lobb,

We’ve just lost EMA to Amsterdam and EBA to Paris

It is being reported that we will pay £40bn to leave the EU

And ECJ will oversee EU citizens rights post-Brexit

Why is it that I can’t see this positive Eutopian NEW world that you seem to see ?

[Danny Fireblade]

The result is what the result is. People voted for what they thought was right at the time, and the majority won.

This vote is no different to any general election, when politicians lie to get your votes and don’t deliver on what they promised.

Can people just get over it because what they wanted didn’t happen? This is what democracy is, people have a choice, and the result is what is what it is.

Should we be berating the politicians for lying to us about specifics, or should we be berating ourselves for believing their tripe?

Can we vote about something that’s actually important, like what’s the better all rounder, a 430d or a 435d?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Danny Fireblade

The result is what the result is. People voted for what they thought was right at the time, and the majority won.

This vote is no different to any general election, when politicians lie to get your votes and don’t deliver on what they promised.

Can people just get over it because what they wanted didn’t happen? This is what democracy is, people have a choice, and the result is what is what it is.

Should we be berating the politicians for lying to us about specifics, or should we be berating ourselves for believing their tripe?

Can we vote about something that’s actually important, like what’s the better all rounder, a 430d or a 435d?

I think it is different in the sense when politicians lie in a General Election campaign - and then fail to deliver on what they promised - you can vote them out at the next General Election. However, Brexit's a one-way street with no going back (unless of course someone decides we will have a second referendum after all!).

[Rudz]

Sorry, u can boot out the politicians after 5 years if they don’t keep to their manifesto, but this is a lifetime decision, irreversible, so not a valid comparison

Why would u want to press ahead with it when u have facts indicating it is not good for the country or it’s citizens?

A 335d is a better car than the 340i fact lol...

[Edinburra]

Originally Posted by Danny Fireblade

The result is what the result is. People voted for what they thought was right at the time, and the majority won.

This vote is no different to any general election, when politicians lie to get your votes and don’t deliver on what they promised.

Can people just get over it because what they wanted didn’t happen? This is what democracy is, people have a choice, and the result is what is what it is.

Should we be berating the politicians for lying to us about specifics, or should we be berating ourselves for believing their tripe?

Can we vote about something that’s actually important, like what’s the better all rounder, a 430d or a 435d?

Well put.

[Jeff123]

We voted to stay in the Common Market in the '70's and at that point it seemed like a good idea - we just traded with our closest customer base.

What has happened since has been a gradual transition where the EU is becoming more integrated than even the US. We didn't vote for this and for many years a large proportion of the UK population became increasingly frustrated.

I don't think David Cameron actually intended us to get a vote, but we did and voted out for many reasons.

For good or bad, we have to make this work now.

[Bibbles]

Originally Posted by Lobb

17.4 million "idiots" in the UK

I think the actual number is much higher.

[Rudz]

Originally Posted by Jeff123

We voted to stay in the Common Market in the '70's and at that point it seemed like a good idea - we just traded with our closest customer base.

What has happened since has been a gradual transition where the EU is becoming more integrated than even the US. We didn't vote for this and for many years a large proportion of the UK population became increasingly frustrated.

I don't think David Cameron actually intended us to get a vote, but we did and voted out for many reasons.

For good or bad, we have to make this work now.

What is wrong with Integration? weren’t advancements in transport, Communication, the internet ,Mobile phones etc meant to bring people together? Why oh why do we want to isolate ourselves?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Jeff123

We voted to stay in the Common Market in the '70's and at that point it seemed like a good idea - we just traded with our closest customer base.

What has happened since has been a gradual transition where the EU is becoming more integrated than even the US. We didn't vote for this and for many years a large proportion of the UK population became increasingly frustrated.

I don't think David Cameron actually intended us to get a vote, but we did and voted out for many reasons.

For good or bad, we have to make this work now.

I think you're right, over time the Common Market - which was essentially about free trade - morphed into a much stronger political union which the British people never voted for and almost certainly never wanted.

However, over the intervening years that political union has grown ever more complex and what we're seeing now is it's not as easy to extricate ourselves from it as we'd hoped (or at least not if we want to preserve a decent trading relationship with the EU once we've left). The fact we have a weak government which lacks authority and credibility probably isn't helping our cause either...

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by Lobb

1. The EMA and EBA employ circa 300 people in the UK. They are EU functions. Obviously they will move as in fifteen months we will not be a member.
2. It's been reported that there is a Lancaster bomber on the moon. So what?
3. The ECJ will have as much influence in the UK post Brexit as it does in Pakistan.

1) It's a much higher number than that.
2) Eh.
3) We will have to adopt and stick to all their rules if we want to trade with them. Only difference we have no say in those rules now. Taking back control lolz.

[Dyl]

Lobb, which ECJ ruling upset you the most. If you can't pinpoint it exactly just name your top 5.

[Rudz]

Originally Posted by Lobb

1. No it's not. Not in the UK
2. Don't believe everything you read on the BBC website.
3. The ECJ will have no jurisdiction in the UK. That's down to UK courts.

Lobb there is no getting away, we will be paying a substantial amount for the privilege of separation.

Did you not hear Brandon Lewis saying Govt may be ready to accept continued jurisdiction of ECJ post brexit?

Then there is this whole mess about the Irish borders

Admire ur optimism

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Rudz

What is wrong with Integration? weren’t advancements in transport, Communication, the internet ,Mobile phones etc meant to bring people together? Why oh why do we want to isolate ourselves?

Nobody's saying we want to isolate ourselves; however, membership of an ever closer political union shouldn't need to be a prerequisite for things like trade, communication and working together.

[RickLS7]

I think the real question is that if we knew the true scale of government incompetence that has manifested itself, would we have voted to leave? These people mostly have no training/experience to run a country and are driven by headline policies just so they can get re-elected. The fact that they had no plan when the majority voted to leave says it all.

I don’t know anyone who voted to leave who did so because of idiots like Boris promising things that ultimately they had no power to offer.

[Rudz]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Nobody's saying we want to isolate ourselves; however, membership of an ever closer political union shouldn't need to be a prerequisite for things like trade, communication and working together.

Oxymoron if there ever was one 😄😄

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Rudz

Oxymoron if there ever was one 😄😄

Not really - all I'm saying is it isn't necessary to be in a political union with other countries in order to trade, communicate and work with them. For example, last time I checked we had no formal political union with the United States but we've been very close allies for decades...

[Dyl]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Not really - all I'm saying is it isn't necessary to be in a political union with other countries in order to trade, communicate and work with them. For example, last time I checked we had no formal political union with the United States but we've been very close allies for decades...

As a member of the E.U. we have various political and trade agreements with the U.S. They will end when we leave. Who knows when we will be able to reestablish these again, they can take years, double figures, to organise.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by Bibbles

I think the actual number is much higher.

Meh. We have at least 63 million in the USA.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Lobb

1. The EMA and EBA employ circa 300 people in the UK. They are EU functions. Obviously they will move as in fifteen months we will not be a member.
2. It's been reported that there is a Lancaster bomber on the moon. So what?
3. The ECJ will have as much influence in the UK post Brexit as it does in Pakistan.

Just a point of accuracy. The EMA employ around 900 people alone in London. Carry on!